(Updated below) (Updated again)
When I lived in Washington, DC, one of my part-time jobs was to teach TOEIC strategies mainly to Japanese bureaucrats and businessmen who were stationed in the area for one reason or another. They usually came as invitees of the State Dept. or, in the case of salarymen, sent by their companies to study the US patent system, auto crash test system, or other relevant area depending on their career track. The school was somewhat unique in that it was specifically set up to cater to Japanese customers, making it effectively an eikaiwa school in the US.
I was never a particularly good teacher. My experiences studying Japanese (at the time I had two years of study abroad in Kansai and the JLPT Level 1 under my belt) actually got in the way of my being an effective teacher, since I usually became so star-struck and curious about their government roles that it hampered their progress in getting through the TOEIC drills. Despite that (or perhaps because of it), the job was a very instructive experience for me, not least in terms of how adults try and learn second languages.
Students were typically early/mid-career bureaucrats in their late 30s or early 40s with no relevant international experience. Hence, their English levels all tended to hover around a fairly low level (TOEIC of around 500 or so, decent reading skills, next to no speaking and listening skills). This helped create a sense of community among the students, who often congregated for small-talk, safe in the knowledge that they were all in the same boat.
Intermediate students threatened this balance. “Intermediate” in this sense simply means a student who can express himself relatively fluently in some situations and maybe has some cultural fluency as well. Though the lessons were mostly one-on-one, during group lessons with the school’s president the intermediate always gained a reputation as “the fluent one.” As a result, the other students would defer to this more advanced student and consider him the standard for progress. Each time this happened, there was always at least one student who became discouraged and grew reluctant to express himself or really try and move forward on his own terms, especially in the group lessons. At the same time, I could detect a kind of jealousy of the intermediate students for getting ahead of them.
The intermediate students could sense how the others felt about them, and some seemed to even relish their top dog position. They tended to be prideful and resisted my suggestions that they needed help with key concepts. It became pretty frustrating at times because even the intermediate students couldn’t successfully understand our teaching materials, which consisted mainly of old TOEIC tests and NPR archives. Basically, they were riding high on the difference between a 600 TOEIC and a 700 TOEIC, which in reality isn’t all that significant.
In the end, this was a form of negative competition. Even if the people around you are more advanced, that doesn’t mean you have to compare yourself with them (at the school we would try and separate intermediate students if possible). And just as important, if you are ahead of your peers, that is no excuse to sit on your laurels. Since the wider world is much more competitive than your circle of acquaintances, it is important to identify your own strengths and weaknesses, and work from there.
Gaijin Hierarchy
The same thing happens among foreigners in Japan, and I am just as guilty of this behavior as anyone. Typically, even in casual conversation people in the Japanese as a second language community as well as the eikaiwa community will rank each other on their relative prowess in Japanese, and I am sure most readers of this blog have endured the utter awkwardness of the Japanese-language/Japanese culture knowledge “pissing contest.” I noticed this tendency very strongly over the (mostly off-topic) discussion at Japan Probe related to the allegations of fund misuse in the JET Program. Here is a typical example of this need to impose hierarchy (UPDATE: Not really, but it’s a good lead-off for discussion nonetheless. See comments for clarification):
Comment by Darg:
I’m a former JET, although I wasn’t an ALT. I was a CIR (Coordinator of International Relations), and have had this convo many times before. I really think the proper solution should be to put more focus on the international understanding and relations and less on the English teaching, and as a result have more CIRs and less ALTs.
I believe the CIR job is closer to the original intention of the JET program, and that is to promote cultural exchange. The problem is, most people don’t even know what a CIR is and think the JET program is a big waste of money because of the portion of ALTs that come out here and screw things up for the majority who actually try and get something done.
If they required a minimum of teaching experience for ALTs and raised the CIR:ALT ratio, I think a lot more people would appreciate the JET program.
This is objectively false (UPDATE: again, see comments for how I misunderstood what he envisioned CIRs doing). The program is called “Japan Exchange and Teaching Program” for a reason – historically, it was set up to place foreigners inside school classrooms to help with the drive to “internationalize” Japan through better English learning. The job of a CIR, on the other hand, is secondary to that priority – they typically assist with the “international” programs of a local city hall. The only basis for concluding that CIRs are more beneficial to the JET program than the ALTs – and this view appears to be common – seems to be the desire to believe that the advanced Japanese language requirements for CIRs actually mean something, as opposed to those illiterate ALTs who are allowed to come to Japan equipped with nothing but their English skills and the enthusiasm to teach kids.
In fact, while I have heard of a productive role for the Portuguese-speaking CIRs who help facilitate communication in towns with high Brazilian populations, others complain that CIRs are often given the basically pointless jobs of promoting multicultural events and maintaining sister city relationships. That these jobs require some Japanese competency does nothing substantially to improve the objective “worth” of these positions.
It is easy to make Darg’s mistake of dismissing ALTs’ role in supplementing the current, generally poor state of English language teaching and general proficiency, including among Japanese-national English teachers. This won’t go away overnight, and in over 20 years of the JET program not much seems to have changed. Commenter Jake brings this up:
Anyway, my point is that having a warm foreign body in every classroom in the country has become the status quo and nobody seems to be questioning that system itself — just figuring out how to maintain the system while cutting costs (i.e. handing all the contracts over to Interac). Then again, retooling the system to teach English in a manner that enables students to actually speak would also mean retooling the entire test-based educational system, and until that happens, pretty much any new policy implemented is going to be nothing more than a band-aid on a brain tumor.
Suggesting Japan should “retool the system” is MUCH easier said than done. Consider some of the moving parts involved:
- All schools, from elementary to university level, would have to turn their fundamental principles of education upside down (and have the talent infrastructure to understand and accept this new system); progress in the form of all-English education has been made on this front.
- Japanese-national teachers would have to become functionally fluent in English.
- Universities would have to reform their entrance procedures to emphasize English proficiency as it’s understood by most of the world (this is apparently underway).
- Parents would have to change their expectations for how their children study.
And on and on. Feel free to squabble over the details, but it’s clear enough that in the current environment, parachuting in “warm bodies” seems like a pretty good compromise. So despite all the insults I have dished out in the past, I really don’t think there is anything these ALTs/eikaiwa teachers should be ashamed of. In an imperfect system, they are playing an important role.
Yet I would argue that for the purpose of leading a productive life, it’s necessary to leave the whys and wherefores about eikaiwa aside. To a certain extent, supply and demand are beyond direct human control, and as a result much overarching debate on “the system” ends up being just another extension of the pissing contest.
But this point remains lost on too many with a vested interest in this issue – the teachers and those who look down on them in the milieu of gaijin society. Again and again, jobs that require Japanese in Japan are seen as more worthy than the dreaded English teacher position. Roughly speaking, I see the hierarchy as falling along these lines:
Japanese-speaking corporate executive > Professor > Interpreter > Token gaijin at a large corporation > Translator > Gaijin tarento > JLPT 1 passer > eikaiwa teacher-turned-entrepreneur > Journalist > CIR > Convenience store clerk/electronics salesman > Eikaiwa teacher > Street performer > Hostess
Relatedly, the group of Western expats who work for foreign companies and generally live in a Little America (think Hiroo in Tokyo or Rokko Island in Kobe) are usually not even included in this universe of possibilities, despite there being substantial overlap in practice.
Could there be anything more arbitrary and meaningless? In every other corner of the word it seems like people understand that people of different skill sets and living situations have different career needs, prospects, priorities, and ways of life, so why do the gaijin need to bitch so much?
The majority of non-soldier Western expats in this country are eikaiwa teachers, so it is an interesting phenomenon to see that many even in the profession see it as pointless and counterproductive to their careers. The people within that group easily end up like my former students — forming a pecking order based on Japanese language ability and overall J-savviness.
Why? For one thing, the gaijin community can be pretty isolated – it is a small subset of wider Japanese society, so if language or cultural barriers have kept you from really assimilating with the mainstream, the only real alternative is to stay with the people with whom you have common ties. A thousand and one Japan bloggers will tell you this can be lonely and frustrating. For another, it cannot be denied that there is some truth to the idea that many people who end up in Japan were either single-mindedly obsessed with Japan from the beginning or simply didn’t give much thought to a career until graduation rolled around. People whose jobs came as an afterthought might welcome a distraction from their own situations.
But most importantly, placing the eikaiwa teachers or those with poor Japanese on the bottom of the totem pole is a convenient and easy way to make people feel better about themselves. But again, it doesn’t actually help anyone – it’s just another form of negative competition. I hope the people living and working in Japan will step back from these false distinctions.
In terms of careers, eikaiwa teachers should try and think honestly where they are and consider where they would like to be, without worrying about whether their Japanese is up to snuff. Japanese is a lot of work, but it is doable and it will come. Or not. You will have to make the cost/benefit analysis of where your career is headed and whether it is worth it to stay in Japan at all costs or whether you might have better prospects back home, or even in a third country (I had a great time living in Bangkok). The economy isn’t all that great at the moment, but now is a good time to brush up on your strengths or the skills you wish were your strengths, whether they are Japanese language, network engineering, hip-hop dancing, or even English teaching.
Oddly, it’s the people supposedly on the top that might have the most to lose by “winning” this contest. Even if you have passed JLPT 1 and “escaped” eikaiwa, why not take a look in the mirror and consider your next move? Many of the people who have succeeded somewhat in assimilating did so by going out of their way to avoid contact with other Westerners, out of the fear that overexposure to their native language would hinder the Japanization process. While there is some merit to that, especially at the early stages, at some point you will have to stop seeing other foreigners as competition. You should feel comfortable enough in your position that you’re happy to help others.
Despite all the praise you might get for speaking good Japanese, Japanese language alone does not make a career (and if you want to be a translator/interpreter, it’s harder than it looks). Nor will it make you a very interesting person if that’s all you’ve got. And remember, if you become too self-satisfied with your supposedly lofty achievements you may be in for a rude awakening.
YET MORE UPDATES (No more Chuck Norris…): Here is an updated hierarchy thanks to the comments section (again, this is just a rough estimate based on my assessment of the state of gaijin discourse):
The emperor if he actually has a surfer dude accent > Steven Seagal > all foreign sumo wrestlers except Konishiki and those Russians that got caught with weed > Naturalized Japanese citizen (some overlap here)* > Street performer who hooked up with a famous idol > Japanese-speaking corporate executive > other foreign fighter/athlete> Attorney > Professor > Interpreter > Token gaijin at a large corporation* > Translator > Konishiki > Mombusho scholar > first-generation JET/BET who was totally not an English teacher > Translator who pisses on people > Professor who only teaches ESL > Jesus in Toyama > Gaijin tarento > JLPT 1 passer > JLPT 1 passer who speaks in dialect to show off > Genki English guy* > NGO Worker > eikaiwa teacher-turned-entrepreneur > Foreign Geisha > Journalist > high school exchange student > Akihabara tour guide (with Son Goku costume)* > Portuguese-speaking CIR > CIR > Convenience store clerk/electronics salesman* > Eikaiwa teacher >Bonsai (or other traditional Japanese craft) master > Bonsai (or other traditional Japanese craft) student > Buddhist convert > Shinto convert > Headhunter > Eikaiwa teachers who are milking the system > Street performer > Hostess > guy handing out event fliers in Roppongi > Foreign psychic > Evangelical Christian
* Position in hierarchy in dispute.
One thing that Darg notes would be extremely worthwile: “If they required a minimum of teaching experience for ALTs”. As a CIR who was an ALT in practice for 3 years (town of 8000 people does not a CIR require), I can tell you that being thrown into teaching was a shock, and there are fewer things built into the system to improve ALTs’ teaching abilities once they arrive on the program. (Recontracting seminars in Tokyo have been canceled as far as I know. My recontracting seminar was inspirational – I saw the Genki English guy live in the flesh…totally changed the way I thought about teaching.)
Also, how do you think the idea of negative competition contributes to ALT teaching ability? You’ve talked about it mostly in terms of the ALTs’ language acquisition, which I think I agree with. I think being on that “bottom rung” can also decrease a teacher’s desire to be a better teacher.
I really don’t think there is anything these ALTs/eikaiwa teachers should be ashamed of.
I guess what I want to say is that I agree with this UNLESS the ALT is just milking the system, putting in the hours without any attempt to get results from their students – I was probably guilty of that myself for a few months late in my first year, but that recontracting seminar I mentioned helped, as did being called out by an elementary school teacher (“More activities that all the kids can do”) and a junior high teacher – “Less Japanese in the classroom.”
“This is objectively false. The program is called “Japan Exchange and Teaching Program” for a reason – historically, it was set up to place foreigners inside school classrooms to help with the drive to “internationalize” Japan through better English learning.”
You are objectively wrong. Talk to anyone who was on the JET program for the first few (five?) years of its existence. The first JETs didn’t teach — they basically just hung around the towns they were sent to, occasionally engaging in interesting activities, but generally viewed with bemusement by their prefectures that had no idea what to do with them.
Note the Japanese word for Jet: 外国語青年招致事業 — “Operation to Summon Foreign Language Youth!” (my crude and cheeky translation). The stated purpose of the program was initially 国際化, but no one knew what that meant. The designation into CIR, ALT, and SEA came later, and only once the program got going in the early 90s did it weigh heavily towards bringing in ALTs over other categories.
So Darg is right, his comment is insightful, but you just sweep him aside claiming he’s wrong, backed up by no information (or more accurately very wrong assumptions).
On that point, to repeat other commenters: you need to reign in your tendenacy to make broad, baseless and sweeping assumptions and criticisms when you get on the topic of language teaching in Japan. Hey, I hate English teachers too! There, I said it! But I recognize that their utility to Japanese society is greater than that of telemarketers, mutual fund salesmen, and toll booth collectors.
As for the JET program, it is largely responsible for the “normalcy” that westerners can enjoy in Japan’s countryside. When I was first here at age 12 in the early 90s, I was asked dozens of times for my autograph even in Tokyo. Today, I bicycle through the badlands of Hokkaido on my bike and grandma tending the potato field doesn’t even blink. That’s called 国際化 — the furigana for that kanji in this case is “PROGRESS” — and JET played a part in it.
Your thesis on this post is great, and like you I share some elements of being a gifted but arrogant student of Japanese (the so-called “intermediate student”). But that point is sidetracked with your (wrong) criticism of JET. So move on.
“In fact, while I have heard of a productive role for the Portuguese-speaking CIRs who help facilitate communication in towns with high Brazilian populations, others complain that CIRs are often given the basically pointless jobs of promoting multicultural events and maintaining sister city relationships. That these jobs require some Japanese competency does nothing substantially to improve the objective “worth” of these positions.”
Here in the city of Toyota,Japan’s equivalent of Dearborn,Michigan.there are Brazilian who lost jobs and can’t afford to buy ticket to fly back home,many of them are now wanting to move to municipial apartments with more than 360 vacant rooms but Aichi prefecture refusing to rent them to anyone,because local population don’t want anymore Brazilian coming over.Local NPO is planning to set up “Haken”village like tents and do the sit-in this weekend.
I’ve been talking to more than 3 dozen unemployed Brazilian workers in the past month and although many of them have been here for more than ten years,they can hardly speak Japanese.Even worse their kids were sent to private Brazilian schools(with no financial support from neither Japanese nor Brazilian government)and current economic hardship had made them difficult to continue going to schools.
Reading the discussion,I have to wonder how many eikaiwa community understand
gloomy future ahead of them.
Many local government are now facing rapid decline of corporation tax income due to the down sizing of production in Toyota factories,ANd under such circumstances we can no longer justify this 21st century version of “Oyatoi-Gaijin” we know as JET/ALT.
Aichi,Shizuoka,Gihu,Mie and Gunma need as much Portuguese/Japanese bilingual staffs as possible since there are tons of works must be done starting from job education for the unemployed.And since they have no extra budgets,most likely gone will be “international exchange”related posts.
This was some sort of blogapalooza: 3 or 4 posts all on the same soapbox.
I think I understand your point, but throughout the whole post it seems that you were aiming it at someone, and that maybe that someone wasn’t Darg or the peanut gallery at Japan Probe.
Also, you need to add headhunter to your hierarchy. And don’t forget that there are JETs that look down their noses at private ALTs and “eikaiwa” teachers, so even within the noble profession of teaching exists negative competition.
”Today, I bicycle through the badlands of Hokkaido on my bike and grandma tending the potato field doesn’t even blink. That’s called 国際化—the furigana for that kanji in this case is “PROGRESS”—and JET played a part in it.”
I credit the exposure to JETs as playing a large role in the reduction of the ”haroo!” chorus I used to get every time I passed a bunch of schoolkids.
What criteria did you use to rank your hierarchy? Why is exec over prof (are these profs just the glorified eikawa people, or do you mean real academics working in Japan?), or interpreter way above translator? And where does “lawyer” for example fit in?
Yeah, the category of “English teacher in Japan” includes quite a lot of variety, including (in no particular order): JET ALT, private ALT, Eikaiwa school employee, Eikawia school owner, private tutor to the wealthy and/or powerful, university English teacher, university professor with English teaching specialty, and probably more.
I think Adam’s hierarchy is very roughly how a good many people view things, but honestly a lot of the rankings will be flipped around depending on the perspective of the person making the judgment. For example, while executives usually make more money than professors anywhere in the world, a professor with a highly developed sense of ivory tower superiority might just rank themselves at the top of any list. And of course, then there are various ranks of professor-dom, whether one teaches exclusively in English (despite not being an “English teacher”) or also/exclusively teaches in Japanese, despite it being a foreign language.
I could go on and on…
Jade, to answer the question of “why is interpreter above translator”, ask any interpreter. Or better still, refer to an interpreter as a translator.
“…honestly a lot of the rankings will be flipped around depending on the perspective of the person making the judgment.”
True. The other way to flip things around is achieve the unthinkable, like the street performer who ended up gettin’ it on with Hosokawa Fumie.
Uhh…Curzon, I don’t know what you might have done, but I was a ALT during years 4 and 5 of the JET program, and I sure as hell taught for a living. My predecessors did do. My interaction with peers led me to believe that teaching was the primary activity and primary goal of the program. The CIR positions were clearly–as was presented in our prefecture, at least–a sidenote to the teaching positions. Are you talking about some of the earlier projects that led to JET, like the Monbusho Fellows program or something?
I think Adam is right with the hierarchy thing, but I’m not sure it’s anything special to Japan. Look, everyone knows that eikaiwa teacher is pretty much a dead-end job, unless you turn entrepeneur and start your own school or something. Are you saying that successful MNC executives in America don’t look down on former classmates working at dead-end low skill jobs? Professors don’t feel a sense of accomplishment over someone who hasn’t bothered to get a job where they might get promoted? In what country is this not true? I suppose it’s not very PC and all, but it’s life. Deal with it.
For sure, though, the whole “J-savviness” (I like that word) pissing matches do get old. Since most of my time in Japan has been west of Nagoya, we have the whole accent thing–there’s a very fine line between speaking what you hear and ostentatiously using kansai-ben to show off.
“True. The other way to flip things around is achieve the unthinkable, like the street performer who ended up gettin’ it on with Hosokawa Fumie.”
OK, I don’t know that story, but the point sure stands.
Rubashov: I can’t actually vouch for what Curzon said because I don’t know and haven’t checked, but do note that he’s talking about JET as it was originally conceived about 20 years ago, not what it is today. When were you on JET? I haven’t spoken with many people who did it say, over 10 years ago, and it would be interesting to hear comparisons of change over time.
“there’s a very fine line between speaking what you hear and ostentatiously using kansai-ben to show off.”
I did get a funny look the time or two I reflexively said “okini” at a store in Tokyo.
“…ask any interpreter. Or better still, refer to an interpreter as a translator.”
I’ve done both before, and the skills and required product are quite different. I don’t know if one is necessarily *harder* than the other, given that with translation you don’t really have all that much time either, and with interpretation the rough meaning is usually enough, without worrying about it being perfectly smooth or natural language (and it’s usually higher level language as well written vs verbal or conversational). But I do take my proverbial hat off to simultanous interpreting….
Talking of dialects, the real trap is when you don’t know the word you learnt is dialect….
…and even when you get two, say, university profs who teach the same thing, then they can piss on each other regarding where they teach (or graduated). People like pissing on each other. Biologically, we actually feel pleasure in victory and schadenfreude – the pleasure centres of the brain are stimulated. So putting someone down is like sex or chocolate….
“True. The other way to flip things around is achieve the unthinkable, like the street performer who ended up gettin’ it on with Hosokawa Fumie.”
I would like to hear more about this.
Voila,Benjamin,
http://moura.jp/clickjapan/noda/010/page2.html
Rubashov: I base my assertions on reading about the history of the JET regime, and anecdotes and stories from JETs from the first five years. The stories from the first JETs are hilarious — months of non-supervision, one day a week teaching middle school students, months to prepare a 10 minute speech on American coffee v.s. Japanese tea to give at various events. Some of these people are in Tokyo today.
Jade OC: Lawyer is definitely high overlord in the hierarchy. Just ask Joe.
I am a translator and I will piss on anybody you want me to for 15 yen/cc.
Very good article.
I know many people who were on the British English Teaching (BET) scheme which, along with the US Fulbright, was a predecessor to the JET programme. They merged in ’87 to become JET. At the time BET began in 1978, with the support of a young Junichiro Koizumi, there was an existing law forbidding foreign nationals teaching in Japanese schools so it wasn’t always clear what teaching responsibilities the first wave had. As you might expect, it ended up depending on the individual and the school.
The British started their programme because it was clear that Japan was an important trading partner and yet the local perception of Japan was still that of a dastardly second world war enemy. The Fulbright programme was already in place but was seen at the time as of questionable value so the BET proposal was met with some scepticism on the Japan side. The British argued that they had a surplus of qualified teachers (owing to the recession at the time) so, in theory, teaching was supposed to be a key part of the programme in some fashion. However, Curzon’s characterization of what the early participants ended up doing is exactly right. From the Japan side, there was no way of determining whether a foreign teacher would help or hinder pupils’ progress but it was always understood that it would be a good thing to have an educated white foreigner take away a positive impression of Japan so that’s where the effort went.
I don’t think JET members en masse began to regard themselves primarily as English teachers until the early 90’s by which time the economic bubble had burst and local districts were beginning to wonder what JETs were for. In addition, the scheme had been running long enough, in its various forms, for many schools to have encountered a JET who wasn’t always a great ambassador 24/7 so the bar was set much higher for those who followed.
Fun fact: I actually applied for the CIR post in JET to start summer of 2005 following my graduation. I think I made a mistake in the paperwork or something, as I never heard back from them at all-even a rejection. I didn’t regret it for long though, as I ended up getting a scholarship to go study Mandarin in Taiwan instead, which I think served me a LOT better long term. And I still ended up spending a year being underutilized at a boring office job in Japan.
“For sure, though, the whole “J-savviness” (I like that word) pissing matches do get old.”
Yeah, but to an extent people come to terms with living in a new environment by formulating theories about how things around them work. It is natural that nastiness ensues if, once they think things make sense, someone else comes along and attempts to demonstrate that the theory they have concocted is wrong. Language proficiency just gets dragged into the debate to lend the proponents authority in their attempts to come up with and defend their amazing “theories of the Japanese people”.
I believe you can recognize people who know what they are talking about by the fact that they simply don’t engage with others trying to define “what Japanese people think”. In other words, if the newbies to Japan are interested in actually learning about the place that they are living in, they will eventually come to terms with the fact that there is no “key” to understanding “Japan”. Until then though, pissing contests over “the right type of knowledge” are as natural as they are in any university social science department.
Curzon: Unfortunately, lawyer is definitely not at the top. That space is reserved for Steven Seagal.
Curzon –
Your overall point is very well taken – my main point did get a little sidetracked by my desire to sound off on the JET program.
On the particulars of your initial criticism, I feel like your beef is more with my phrasing (I implied that JET had always been an English teaching program when that’s a little more complicated based on comments from you and others) rather than the essential rightness of my position. Regardless of the particulars of the JET program’s initial origins, it at the very least quickly evolved into a language teaching program, and no one would disagree that for the overwhelming majority of its existence, the main method of the JET program has been “plac[ing] foreigners inside school classrooms to help with the drive to “internationalize” Japan through better English learning.”
Darg’s comment has some good points, and I would agree that “That is objectively wrong” could sound overly dismissive. Perhaps I should have been clearer on what I meant by “that.” He’s still wrong about raising the CIR ratio, and his assumption that CIRs are inherently a better solution to meet the JET Programs goals is extremely doubtful and feeds into my point about negative competition. I won’t say that CIRs are worthless – far from it, though as Aceface says a society needs to prioritze – but even by your own standards of “less chants of “haro” on the streets” CIRs walking the streets between home and the city hall would have the no more and no less effect than ALTs, without the added benefit of the CIR actually being an assistant teacher at the kids’ schools.
Still, more important than arguing over whether CIRs are better than ALTs – in the end that isnt for us to decide – one reason I brought this up was to say that everyone needs to take a reality check sometimes.
Joe – touche!
OK, I updated the hierarchy at the bottom of the post.
“how do you think the idea of negative competition contributes to ALT teaching ability?”
As I alluded to at the top of the post, I think my pretensions to J-savviness definitely harmed my teaching. I felt a general cynicism toward the teaching model (“TOEIC is a dumb standardized test”) and moreover felt that I could connect to them better as someone with Japan experience, something my coworkers, mostly juniors and seniors from area universities, didn’t have. It was complete crap and ultimately self-serving, because for the most part the other teachers never got distracted from doing the TOEIC drills, which is a big help to the students since many companies use TOEIC scores as a metric when deciding their career trajectories.
The last part should be –
Street performer > Hostess > guy handing out event fliers in Roppongi > Evangelical Christian
I also think that foreign K-1, MMA fighters, or boxers not named Bob Sapp should be ahead of professor (hey, I’m not going to argue with them) and Yokozuna should be ahead of everyone except Steven Segal. The only person that should be ahead of Segal is Sean Connery when he is in Japan and possibly Jesus, who was an eikaiwa teacher somewhere in Tohoku.
Adding sumo wrestlers is a good idea, but I think the hierarchy would have to be
Steven Seagal > *Kotooshu* > Street performer who hooked up with a famous idol > *All other foreign rikishi except Konishiki* > Japanese-speaking corporate executive > Attorney > Professor > Interpreter > Token gaijin at a large corporation > *Konishiki*
Question: If Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal and Kotooshu were in the same room at the same time, would the space-time continuum remain intact?
J-savvy Fun Fact:
Jesus was supposedly a theological student in Toyama for 11 years, according to the story, then later on he allegedly came back, married a Japanese, had three kids and lived somewhere in Tohoku. No evidence of eikaiwa, although he must have taught Aramic and Hebrew to his family for the story to check out. (That ‘somewhere’ is Herai, in Shingo-mura. I went to his supposed grave, at which they have a ‘matsuri’ [huh?] every summer, and was aghast at the fact that they have marked it with a cross. That’s the crappiest Q.E.D. of a revisionist history I have ever seen.)
Anyhow, true Evangelical Christian would be honored to be at the very bottom of the totem pole.
What would more CIRs actually do? Even if the ALTs aren’t utilized properly, at least it’s pretty easy to understand that more teachers=more teaching. More CIRs=more…what exactly?
Where does Fulford go in the hierarchy?
Fulford(and Konishiki)is a Japanese national,which means his place is high above in the food chain.
CIR would be a big help in Aichi.If he or she speaks Portuguese…..
Hi Adamu,
Holy mother of coincidences – I spent more than 25 years living 30mins. outside of DC! I must say I was a little surprised to see my comment included here, so I feel compelled to reply.
I do agree that there’s definitely some sort of unspoken “gaijin hierarchy”, although many would definitely argue over the ordering or omission of certain roles.
I also agree with Jake that there are fundamental problems in the education system needs work, but as you said easier said than done. I also firmly believe that we can’t force Japan to change – Japan’s the only one that can do that. Countries are sorta like people in that fashion.
My comments on the worthiness of CIR over ALT were actually more in relation to a totally different gaijin hierarchy to yours – western foreigners vs. asians/south americans/etc. When I say more CIRs, I’m talking more Chinese, Korean, Brazilian/Portuguese-speaking, and Spanish-speaking CIRs, not native English ones.
If you look at the foreign population in Japan, native English speakers are by far the minority with Chinese, Koreans, and I believe Brazilians making up the top 3. Filipinos and other South Americans are up there too last time I checked – Americans for example make up something like 5% of the total foreign population I think, which would mean like 0.1% of the total Japanese population.
Back when the JET program started it wasn’t as much of an issue, but as the foreign population grows they’re going to need people to help with the growing pains and I’m talking about people that didn’t even make your scale. I’ve talked to Chinese and Indonesian factory workers and have a bunch of Brazilian friends currently that I see weekly – depending on where they live and their situation they can be pretty isolated from mainstream Japan, but the ones I talk to are probably better off than most as most all of them speak good Japanese and can thus get around and make Japanese-speaking friends (or else I couldn’t talk to them!!). I’m in Tokyo now too, so people further out have it worse as well.
You mentioned Portuguese-speaking CIRs. As an example, I know a CIR from a Spanish-speaking country placed in Saitama who has told me stories about her job, and believe me she is/was making a huge difference in supporting the Spanish-speaking community there – she helps teachers talk to parents when they have issues, helps hospitals deal with their patients, teaches kids Japanese and a whole boatload of other worthwhile work that keeps her busy well past 5pm every day. She’s swamped and needs more support, and yet her country only sends 1 candidate per year. There are tons of communities around the country that I’m sure could use non-English, non-Japanese support as well, thus more CIRs. I see that as more worthy of government funding than an ALT in the classroom, just my opinion.
So in relation to the above and to reference another JP article, where would you put Indonesian nurses? Or those Brazilian and other Chinese factory workers? These are the people that really get the brunt end of things, and they usually get totally ignored by us in the English-speaking community.
Oh and as I heard it, the original purpose of JET was twofold:
1) to get Japanese people exposed and used to foreigners even if they lived way out there like up in Wakkanai, Hokkaido. This (hopefully) would raise interest in foreign cultures (and as a result English studies).
2) to raise a foreign community of ambassadors for Japan. As you’ll notice there’s always been a limit on how long you can participate, and the assumption is that most will go home at the end and not stay in Japan (50% leave after the 1st year). This means a whole bunch of people going home and talking about their experience in Japan (hopefully good things) and thus raising interest and knowledge of Japan abroad, and with their alumni network getting a bunch of them to help support Japanese communities abroad.
#2 might be a jaded stretch, but figured I’d just throw it out there as I have heard that from a few people I think might know what they’re talking about.
Feel free to email me if you want to discuss further, and if you’re in Tokyo maybe I’ll even buy you a beer. 😛
Cheers!
Oh, I didn’t know that Fulford nationalized. Does a nationalized citizen go to the top of the line, or leave entirely?
Yeah, Brazilian CIRs would definitely be helpful in a few spots, but what about the rest of the country? From CIRs I’ve spoken to, it sounds like most of their duties are somehow tourism related, but not everyplace gets tourists.
“Filipinos and other South Americans are up there too last time I checked”
Any Filipino working in Japan is almost definitely fluent, if not near-native level proficient in English.
Oh hey, and let me put in my vote for Chuck Norris as he owns all. Steven Seagal? Pfft.
Peter, are you telling me that Jesus didn’t speak English!? Anyway, you were closest to the man, so you should know.
“Question: If Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal and Kotooshu were in the same room at the same time, would the space-time continuum remain intact?”
That question works just as well without Kotooshu.
Some CIRs do actually help non-Japanese speaking foreigners do city hall procedures. Shame they have all of the Portuguese speaking ones in Kyushu (“Christian Century” legacy stuff) instead of, you know, where they could actually help out. CIRs CAN be really helpful, I know of some who helped to set up camps for the national teams during the world cup, coordinate sports exchange, etc. They should lop the whole CIR deal off from the JET program, however. The po-leece also need a CIR like system (I’d join and write a book about it).
I think that foreign psychics and conspiracy theory nuts should go between Hostess and Evangelical Christian.
Another serious one that I’d put pretty high – (elite) chef.
“Peter, are you telling me that Jesus didn’t speak English!? ”
I always thought Jesus invented English-and America.
“Another serious one that I’d put pretty high – (elite) chef.”
How about master art thief?
What about emperor? Last I heard he is blood-connected with Koreans….
And yet somehow the emperor’s Japanese is pretty good.
“Any Filipino working in Japan is almost definitely fluent, if not near-native level proficient in English.”
Way to pick the one group rounding out a list of 5 that speaks a decent modicum of English. If you’d prefer to replace them Russians are only a couple notches down.
What about the other 4 and the larger point that you should also consider the non-English speaking foreigners in Japan, which make up the majority?
Oh and as an interesting tidbit, Chinese CIRs are currently limited to a 1-year term and required to have 1Q and comparable speaking – much stricter than western standards because there are more qualified candidates!
Chuck Norris for Emperor in 2009.
Darg, great comments, except for that last bit about Chuck Norris (remember that dude is an evangelical – bottom of the pile!)
Clearly, in that context raising the CIR:ALT ratio makes perfect sense. Non-western foreigners don’t go in this hierarchy because it is purposely designed to show how arbitrary it is. Part of the point I was trying to make in this article was that there is a much broader world than this gaijin hierarchy, and the larger foreign community is just one part of it.
On the topic of multicultural government services, I recently an NHK documentary about Brazilians in Gunma Prefecture. The town of Oizumi set up some Japanese lessons but never even bothered to advertise them properly or hold them at times that factory workers could deal with. In addition to multilingual staff, it might help if the administrators could develop a bit of flexibility and creativity as well.
Darg, I’m not trying to attack your larger point-I’m just staying that maybe that particular group doesn’t need to be on the list.
I agree with you that the CIR program needs to be re-oriented. At the moment, from what I’ve heard, they mainly focus on providing English language services relating to tourism, international conferences, and similar events, when many areas are in need of completely different services in different languages. The ratio of English speaking to non-English speaking CIRs is pretty absurd and certainly needs a recalibration.
Tom Cruise got a Japanese holiday named after him. Does he beat us all?
Nice read. I feel like JETs are good, having been one, but I also see the need for reform.
On Phillipino:
while I agree with your point Darg,I have a feeling Phillipino community in Japan is doing relatively OK than the most in terms of adjusting the society,for many residents are married to Japanese.They also go to Catholic churches and that netweorks helps them in various ways.Added to that the embassy has relatively good website to help expatriates,(while there are no equivalent in Brazilian nor Peruvian embassy).Ofcourse there’s a matter of domestic violence between J-P couples,which I’m intentionally discounting here.
Brazilians needs more help than the others since they are bigger and least capability of adjusting the Japanese environment and their consuate does next to nothing.There’s not even active nationwide NPO’s serving for their interest.
And yet somehow the emperor’s Japanese is pretty good.
No it isn’t. Stilted, unnatural. The guy sounds like he’s reading lines someone else wrote for him. I bet when the cameras are off he reverts to Valley Guy California slang or something.
I hereby cast my “gaijin playing most vital role in Japan” vote for all those continental Asians cheating on their student visas to ring up my purchases at convenience stores. This country would grind to a halt without them.
English, and America were invented by the Chinese.
“The guy sounds like he’s reading lines someone else wrote for him.”
That’s exactly what he’s doing. And when the cameras are off, he goes and pets the flower petals in the palace gardens, whispering, “Medete, medete…”
people in the Japanese as a second language community… will rank each other on their relative prowess in Japanese
I’ve always thought of this as the Highlander Effect. You know: “There can be only onnnnnne!” I suppose this kind of thing is common among any group of individuals possessing a fairly uncommon skill that can only really be rated by other people that possess that skill. (Perhaps this is a case of the fighting being so fierce precisely because the stakes are so low? Japanese as a second language is avery admirable skill but in my experience isn’t really an accurate predictor of success in and of itself.)
Oh, good lord. I’ve been downgraded.
Updated the list again… getting kind of long!
Shame they have all of the Portuguese speaking ones in Kyushu (“Christian Century” legacy stuff) instead of, you know, where they could actually help out.
I know they have at least a couple in Nagoya and Aichi for obvious reasons. Oh, I’m thinking of Brazilian CIRs, though…do you mean Portuguese speaking or actual people from Portugal?
And come on, Genki English guy needs a massive bump – he’s a friggin entrepreneur. He’s selling the program in Thailand, too…I think. I say he belongs right above Monbusho. He’s not government dependent.
This whole thing is starting to sound a lot like Bill Simmons’ NBA Trade Value column. The criterion here is, I believe, how exactly you feel when you introduce yourself. This is all very subjective, of course, but for example, I’d prefer saying “I’m a Professor” to “I’m an ALT,” so Professor > ALT.
I think this shows some flaws in the ratings – would convenience store clerk really be above eikaiwa? Don’t think so. That might put the dude hooking up with the idol closer to the top, though.
would convenience store clerk really be above eikaiwa? Don’t think so.
I don’t know about that. Those conbini clerks work a lot harder and actually have to know Japanese to perform their jobs. Some might even find that kind of work more intellectually stimulating than teaching eikaiwa classes.
Wow, this is along comment threat.
Roy and Curzon, I was a JET from 1991-1993–like I said, in years 4 and 5 of the program. Except during exams or summer vacation, we were in school every day teaching. And this was in Gifu, which is about as rural as they come, so I can’t imagine JETs in urban prefectures were wandering around with nothing do then. Maybe you guys are thinking of the other programs in the early 1980s, but I still have a box of class prep stuff somewhere to prove Wikipedia wrong about early JET.
“…do you mean Portuguese speaking or actual people from Portugal?”
Should have said “most of” the Portuguese speaking CIRs are in Kyushu – the priorities are screwed.
The list is looking good.
I can’t help but think that the street performer should rank above Debito. Not that I have anything against Debito, but come on, the street performer hooked up with an idol.
Replace “Son Goku” with “Stormtrooper” and we can get Danny Choo in there too! This post is loads of fun.
Matt Alt wrote: “Japanese as a second language is a very admirable skill but in my experience isn’t really an accurate predictor of success in and of itself.”
…which is a point that really can’t be made enough times in these kinds of discussions.
Aceface wrote: “I have a feeling Phillipino community in Japan is doing relatively OK than the most in terms of adjusting the society”
I don’t think Filipinos in Japan get sufficient credit for what their community has achieved, either from the authorities or other foreigners. As Darg says, they are the fourth largest group after Koreans, Chinese and Brazilians with over 200,000 registered residents. English teachers may feel that the collapse of NOVA and decline of the eikaiwa business is traumatic – and I wouldn’t want to downplay it – but it really doesn’t compare with the crackdown on entertainers visas. In 2003, 80,000 foreign residents on such visas were from the Philippines (representing 60% of the total). From May 2005, immigration authorities proceeded to reduce their numbers by 90%. The media coverage of starving ex-NOVA teachers was fairly extensive but there was very little about the 70,000-odd who had their lives thrown into turmoil by that legislation change. For two years, police stepped up their spot checks of likely visa overstayers from the Philippines (which is why there were increased complaints from Singaporean visitors and residents at the time because police tended to think they looked similar).
Philippine nationals occupy a fairly unique position in Japan. As Roy has noted, many speak good English, which sets them apart from the other three major foreigner groups. but they also often speak good Japanese. Probably not on a par with Korean residents and they generally won’t have the literacy of Chinese residents but arguably better on average than the Brazilian community. At the moment, we are hearing about the problems for Brazilian schools as the job losses hit their pupil’s parents hard. You didn’t hear anything similar about Philippine schools with the visa crackdown in 2005 for the simple reason that most of their children attend local Japanese schools. And the parents make sure they do attend: you don’t hear much about delinquent Filipino kids.
You can see that in the example of Noriko Calderon who was sent to school while her parents overstayed their visas (or entered illegally in the first place, depending on which report you read). That also raises another point since the girl and her family are at the centre of a high profile court case. The Philippine community has used the courts quite frequently and, as in the case of the recent Supreme Court ruling which recognized the nationality status of children born to non-Japanese mothers and Japanese fathers, other foreign groups get the benefit of their efforts.
Given that many Filipinas have been involved with mizu shobai businesses or other shady enterprises, it is also worthy of note that they are not particularly known for crime. Certainly, visa offences are high. The MoJ just announced that, among illegal foreign residents at the beginning of the year, 17,287 were from the Philippines. That’s only just behind the 18,385 illegal Chinese despite the fact that the Chinese population of Japan is almost three times larger. However, Philippine nationals in Japan aren’t especially known as drug dealers, pickpockets, burglars, robbers or gangsters although they do often pop up in fake marriage cases. Since I’m making sweeping claims without troubling myself with the inconvenience of providing any evidence, I’ll also suggest that Philippine residents, particulary women, may even have a higher tendency to be victims of crime in Japan. Aceface mentioned domestic violence but there are also numerous stories of abuse and extortion. Just last month, police arrested a gangster who tried to extort money from Ruby Moreno. She was a regular on TV some years ago but returned to hostessing when that work dried up. When she tried to leave his bar, the gangster demanded “compensation”. This is apparently quite a common phenomenon and not a problem us whiteys encounter much when we consider moving jobs.
The web and social networks like mixi have helped to keep Philippine nationals connected even when they are spread out over the country. Certainly there are many in the big urban centres but, if you hear of some foreign wives in a backwater rural community, there’s a fair chance they will be Pinays. In general, they have reached parts of Japanese society with which other foreign groups have little or no contact. Also, as Aceface notes, the church plays a major role in bringing the community together. I mentioned elsewhere that the wives group at the centre of the Supreme Court action doesn’t even have a website: they seem to have the quaint notion that they can get more done by meeting and talking with people face-to-face. By and large, in Japan, they are right.
(Incidentally, on the issue of illegal immigrants, did everyone else see that Italy passed legislation earlier this month which obliges medical staff to contact the police if they believe that the patient they are treating does not have a valid visa or work permit?)
I think, as a former Mombusho student, that this should be cumulative: you get XXX points for being at a certain level, and you can add them to your CV, so to speak. Not sure why “token gaijin” is so high though. Those that own their own business would whup their asses.
Where does Gregory Cluck-cluck fit in? Uni Pres and all – generally some fairly major pissability there.
M-Bone: No spacetime continuum could exist with Chunk Norris, as he would deny it was any older the 6,000 years.
“I can’t help but think that the street performer should rank above Debito. Not that I have anything against Debito, but come on, the street performer hooked up with an idol.”
I think that you guys are missing the point. She wasn’t just an idol, she was a 巨乳 idol. You gots to get more points for that.
Anyway, why don’t we create a seperate “activist” category between journalist and Akihabara tour guide? That could solve this problem.
One thing making Phillippino community “unique” is it’s completely divided by gender.Anyone who is accustomed to marine transport business knows Phillippinos are the dominant group among the flag of convenience ship operated by Japanese company.However,many never show up on Japanese soil but sea ports.
And the Phillipinos. who work with their feet on the ground are mostly female working in “the Phillippine pubs”.This gender imbalance makes Japanese phillipino community heavily female oriented.
Another groups of Phillipinos who works in Japan are mostly live and work within Minato-ward,for they work as babysitter and house maid for the wealthy expat community.If you go to the National Azabu Supermarket in Hiroo,you’ll notice on the bulletin board is filled with memos of Phillipino women offering services.
Some of the embassy in Minato-ward,especially the gulf nations of middle east hire Phillipinos as secretary and chauffer for the ambassador.
I think I’d put “Akihabara tour guide (with Son Goku costume) ” at the bottom of the list personally.
“I hereby cast my “gaijin playing most vital role in Japan” vote for all those continental Asians cheating on their student visas to ring up my purchases at convenience stores.”
Anyone on a student visa in Japan can legally work 20 hours a week in any job that isn’t classified as “fuzoku”. Good chance they aren’t actually cheating, but considering few or no other countries are this loose about working on a student visa, I understand the confusion.
There are also Filipina caregivers for the elderly, and the Filipino/a nurses that the Japanese government promised to admit under the trade agreement, but as far as I know has avoided certifying.
It’s important to note that The Philippines is a massive labor-exporting country, with a HUGE infrastructure, governmental, social and commercial, devoted to the recruitment and support of Overseas Filipino Workers (OFW for short). When I visited the Philippines previously, quite literally almost every single person I had a conversation with either had worked abroad, wanted to work abroad/immigrate, or had a member of their immediate family currently working abroad. And while the jobs held by Filipinos in Japan are rather limited, in many countries they also fulfill highly educated positions such as medical or engineering. Of course, this is mainly countries where they can do those jobs in English, so Japan is out.
Where on the list do we put that one white lady who actually went to real Geisha school and then wrote the book about it?
“I think I’d put “Akihabara tour guide (with Son Goku costume) ” at the bottom of the list personally.”
Hey, that’s not cool. I know the guy personally and he’s an incredibly nice person, not at all like the otaku/moe obsessed gaijin you might imagine. He wears the costume as part of the tour he runs in Akihabara to try to encourage a greater appreciation of the area by foreigners. Otaku culture may seem silly to many people, but he’s more sincere about his interest in Japanese culture than many other grad students I know. And yet, the poor guy got featured in SPA last week as a “monster gaijin” even though he’s a PhD student at Toudai and is married to a Japanese.
But Roy,Akiba tour guides are the agents of influence of our soft power.They are the cultural ambassador to the Japanese cool.Their contribution must be rewarded by the people of rising sun.
Jade:
1)Clark exposed Canberra cheating on our embassy.
2)He refuted Karel Van Wolfren and Ivan P.Hall over discussion on the right wing monthly”Shokun!”.Wolfren branded Clark,a “Japan serving foreigner”.
3)He is the nemesis of Debito,the enemy’s enemy is your friend.
There by,I put Akiba tour guide and Gregory Clark above the gaijin activists
and below the Chinese convenience store clerk.
And I vote for Brazilians.Their hands build Toyota Prius,Sony Cyber shots and Sharp Aquos,They are the salt of the earth of Japan Inc,until recently,ofcourse.
Why are we including Brazilians? As far as I knew, to most Japanese people gaijin just means “white person.”
OK,Benjamin.Since your friend in Akiba is a Todai guy.I’ll put him on the top of the pyramid.My apology.
You don’t see many Brazilians in Japan lately,Do you Benjamin?
Most of the Brazilians here in Japan are supposed to be either with Japanese ancestry,of spouse of such.But you’ll notice that half of them look Caucasian or Mulatto and don’t look very…how should I say…”Not very Japanese”?
“Hey, that’s not cool. I know the guy personally and he’s an incredibly nice person, not at all like the otaku/moe obsessed gaijin you might imagine.”
I didn’t actually know we were referring to a particular guy. I thought it was something a bunch of guides were doing. My apologies. Is he doing research related to the field?
BTW, what was the story in SPA? I haven’t heard about it at all.
“Where on the list do we put that one white lady who actually went to real Geisha school and then wrote the book about it?”
She’d be a prof (Anthropology).
“your enemy’s enemy is your friend”
Not always though.
Debito featured the SPA story.
“Question: If Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal and Kotooshu were in the same room at the same time, would the space-time continuum remain intact?”
I don’t know, but if Steven Seagal and Kotooshu hugged, I bet they would be able to bend light.
“BTW, what was the story in SPA? I haven’t heard about it at all.”
You mean this?
http://www.debito.org/?p=2315
On gaijin tarento: Doesn’t Dave Spector deserve his own category? If so, where?
We are also missing “Proselytizing Mormons”, “NGO workers” and there is at least one British sake brewer I have heard of. Maybe there should be “traditional Japanese industry apprentice” and “traditional Japanese industry master” categories. Oh, “dudes at malls whose job it is to yell irrashaimase!” and “high school exchange students” should go somewhere too, I guess.
If you are going to give credit to Brian Hulse for his short-term relationship with Fumie Hosokawa, then Joan Shepherd surely deserves more for marrying Masao Sen in 1972. She first visited Japan as a singer with the New Glenn Miller Orchestra in 1964 but figured she could make a living on her own after touring with them successfully. She soon met Sen, who was a sucker for blonde hair no matter what its provenance, and they married. In her TV career, Shepherd claims she pioneered the dumb gaijin schtick, saying “It takes a very smart woman to portray an airhead and I knew exactly what I was doing!” She helped Sen become the richest man in the entertainment industry in Japan and then asked him for a divorce in 1989. There surely could have been no better time to get a divorce from an asset-rich Japanese husband than 1989. She ran it through US courts which led to a good joke in the Japanese press at the time. They said that since US settlements gave half the husband’s money to the wife, Sen needed to change his name from 千 昌夫 to 五百昌夫. By all accounts, she did get half and was sitting pretty with her share when the bubble burst and her former husband went bankrupt. I can think of a number of Japanese who have married their way into or inherited fortunes overseas but there aren’t so many Westerners who have married into Japanese money.
By the way, Aceface, if you are going to raise the topic of Philippine seamen then you really have to mention “bolitas”. Filipinos claim they picked up the custom from Japanese sailors and it remains popular today. I leave you to Google the term if you don’t know what I’m talking about but you may not want to use a work PC.
I don’t know about that. Those conbini clerks work a lot harder and actually have to know Japanese to perform their jobs. Some might even find that kind of work more intellectually stimulating than teaching eikaiwa classes.
So if you’re out on a date, you’d prefer to say, “Yeah, I make sure the onigiri are always fresh and fully stocked” over “Yeah, I teach English”? Seriously??
Where on the list do we put that one white lady who actually went to real Geisha school and then wrote the book about it?
Jeanie Fuji is an Okami-san in Yamagata Prefecture at Ginzan Onsen. The ryokan she runs looks awesome…way too expensive for my pockets. She’s way above any gaiKOKUjin (let’s keep the Debito happy) geisha schoolgirl.
This is apparently quite a common phenomenon and not a problem us whiteys encounter much when we consider moving jobs.
Careful – some of us are a lovely shade of brown.
“Careful – some of us are a lovely shade of brown.”
This is a very tough issue, as the so-called gaijin population must deal with the fact that a) there is a major stereotype in Japan that Westerners are by definition white and the default image of a gaijin/English teacher is a white man; and b) partly reflecting this fact, the gaijin population really *is* overwhelmingly white and male, regardless of the smaller but significant portion of “lovely shade of brown” people who come to teach English etc. So I and others get in the habit of defining the issues in terms reflecting this. Clearly, if the howtojapan blog guy hooked up with an idol he’d shoot to the top of the list, regardless of race (Konishiki did make the list, after all), just as if he were an evangelical missionary he’d be relegated to “barely above Chuck Norris” status.
But for somewhat arbitrary reasons, I am excluding the Brazilians, Filipinos, continental/SE Asians, and other groups that don’t really fit into the Western continuum — I could see some breaking through if they open an eikaiwa business, but not if they hook up with an idol. That’s just how the chocolate chip melon bread crumbles.
Mulboyne:
Never knew what it was called.But that indeed is a Japanese tradition.I actually knew one NHK caster who had done that to his own.I had to smile every time he shows up on air talking friendly to elders.
Konishiki-Joan Shepherd:
They are both active Republican abroad.
Shepherd has been donatiing huge chunk of cash for Bush-Cheney camp $17,189
in 2004 alone.
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/joan-shepherd.asp?cycle=04
And Konishiki has been actively supporting republican candidates in his former home state.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2002/10/20/news/story8.html
Is this some kind of troll baiting sick joke? You seriously put Chuck Norris at the BOTTOM of the list? And then you expect me to take ANY of this article seriously? Not a chance, sorry.
More importantly though, the only people who have ever had a problem with being ranked are those at the bottom of the list. It’s human nature to rank things, whether it be religions, movies, or brands of chocolate. If you wish to remove yourself from the lower ranks, I suggest you get some marketable skills other than the ability to speak your own native language (you wonder-boy).
Yeah,Bruce is right.Chuck Norris can speak Cantonese.Remove him from the bottom of the list.
I had no idea Chuck Norris was such a divisive topic… I mean, the only reason people talk about him is because he’s an ironic figure right (a wacko evangelist Huckabee-supporting kung fu master Texas Ranger who fought Bruce Lee post-mortem)? The idea that just noting that he’s at the bottom of the gaijin pecking order could spark anger makes me think that Conan O’Brian has seriously screwed with America’s mind.
I am just going to take him from the list entirely. Cantonese is impressive and all, but we are fast seeing that he just isnt part of the Japan Gaijin story.
OK updated the list again. This thing deserves some more attention, which it will most certainly get in an upcoming post.
“We are also missing “Proselytizing Mormons”, “NGO workers” and there is at least one British sake brewer I have heard of. Maybe there should be “traditional Japanese industry apprentice” and “traditional Japanese industry master” categories. Oh, “dudes at malls whose job it is to yell irrashaimase!” and “high school exchange students” should go somewhere too, I guess.”
I like the categories of traditional apprentice/master. Would this include martial arts, or is that a separate category that goes higher or lower? NGO worker could definitely be in there, although foreign NGO workers aren’t really a presence in Japan, are they? I can’t think of any that I’ve ever met or heard of, although there is the similar foreign GOVERNMENT worker, i.e. diplomat/embassy/trade organization types.
I don’t think high school exchange students should be on the list. The whole point of the list is, after all, based on the irrational human competitive spirit, and I don’t think adults are generally competing with high school kids. On the other hand, if we’re working on a point system (like UK or Canadian immigration), then being a FORMER high school exchange student would give you extra points.
“Naturalized Japanese citizen” should not be on the list – it doesn’t really have anything to do with “status” in the epic gaijin pissing match. Could be an eikaiwa teacher that hung around 15 years too long. As most of the other ones are “jobs”, it should probably get bounced.
As for why this whole thing is whitey-centric = in my experience, only white people really care about ranking gaijin. I mean, what does an Indian working at a trading company or a Brazilian factory worker or a Chinese chef care about where they sit on a totem pole that includes 21 year old eikaiwa teachers in Japan to get drunk? Black, brown, etc. Americans complicate the picture but the gaijin pissing match really is largely a bunch of younger white guys marking their territory.
“if we’re working on a point system (like UK or Canadian immigration)”
If we start trying to work out a point system, this thread will top 250 easy.
Having just checked Chuck Norris’s bio on Wikipedia, I have to second that he shouldn’t be on this list. Unlike Steven Segal, who clearly goes at the top, he doesn’t really have any connection to Japan except for having studied Karate, and doesn’t seem to have ever lived here. On the other hand, he was an Air Force policeman in Korea for 4 years, where he spent his time training in Korean martial arts, so he would definitely deserve a legit spot on the equivalent list being made for the waeguksaram list at a forum for expats in Korea.
Does he really speak Cantonese? I’m pretty sure that’s not true.
I dont know about a point system… so many of these are pretty incompatible, and if someone in a higher rank did some of this stuff he would have to LOSE points (a foreign sumo wrestler shouldn’t give Akiba tours but maybe he could get points for JLPT 1?)
Also, lots of these rankings are really ties – Mormons are no different from the evangelicals in my minds, for instance. I am thinking my next post on this will be very similar to Lore Sjoberg’s geek hierarchy (unless someone beats me to the punch and does it for me):
http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html
Also, the “traditional Japanese” category seems kind of hard to rank. I never think about them, so are they better than me? I can’t figure it out.
OK the update just posted I think will have to do for the moment.
Ha- how many of these roles have you filled? I am or have been 6 I think.
Ok I guess maybe this can wait for inclusion in the new post, but what about Bob Sapp? I don’t think he really goes under talento, and while he is a fighter I don’t think he should get lumped in with sumo. Maybe generalize to foreign professional fighters?
Also, I would put foreign sake brew master well above English teacher. That guy is frickin awesome.
“Mormons are no different from the evangelicals in my minds, for instance.”
The pair in my apartment building were hotter than any evangelicals I know.
I think there surely must be a category that we could slide the sake brewing dude into. It would seem a shame to relegate him to the position of a mere entrepreneur. “People who get mentioned in the foreign media for being more Japanese than the Japanese”? The geisha lady would fall into that category too. Things would overlap though.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-sake3-2009feb03,0,4865978,full.story
Foreign sake master should go pretty high, I think. It’s basically just one example of “traditional crafts” but it’s still one that a lot more foreigners are likely to appreciate than your ikebana or calligraphy.
“Does he really speak Cantonese? I’m pretty sure that’s not true.”
I picked that up somewhere in Chuck Norris Facts,so it must be true.
One sake brew master I knew was a blonde woman with a mini skirt…..
http://doraku.asahi.com/hito/runner/060626_02.html
I’ve had / filled 7.
I was the one who originally suggested that the fight sport guys get in and I specified no Bob Sapp. It would be nuts to put Sapp in with someone like Jorge Linares, he’s a tarento at best.
“I never think about them, so are they better than me?”
Before we debate this any further, we need to all decide what we want to be…. The only one of the list that I’d like to be that is above where I am now is Segal…. and I think that would get old pretty quick. I also don’t think that “tradition” should get any special treatment from us at this point. I mean, is being an Ikebana master (a position that can be bought and paid for) really that much better than DJing in Tokyo or running a kick ass Japan blog or reading 17,000 manga or whatever floats your boat?
“Jeanie Fuji is an Okami-san in Yamagata Prefecture at Ginzan Onsen.”
I think that Roy was talking about Liza Dalby – who did her Geisha book as academic research, became a prof (Chicago, I think), and is now writing novels.
Yes, that is her. I couldn’t recall the name, but I do recognize it now. Professor/novelist/geisha is a pretty damn impressive CV.
“I mean, is being an Ikebana master (a position that can be bought and paid for) really that much better than DJing in Tokyo or running a kick ass Japan blog or reading 17,000 manga or whatever floats your boat?”
And to think that “blogger” wasn’t even on the list until now!
I can really only give myself about 3 spots on there. I’m currently a monbusho scholar and do translation as well. I also worked as a sort of token gaijin in a university office, which I think is close enough to count. I also spent two years as an undergrad exchange student though, which isn’t on the list and should be.
“all foreign sumo wrestlers except Konishiki and those Russians that got caught with weed”
Why exempt these guys? I mean sure it lowers there status among Japanese a LOT, but this is the Gaijin hierarchy after all, and I think most of us here are indifferent to some pot smoking, and some probably find it endearing. Of course, getting caught is pretty dumb.
Adamu/Derg: include me in that Tokyo drinks thing.
Sidenote: When I was at the ObsJpn/TPR/MF/NeoMx/CA/etc. blog confab in January, there was this one dude who contradicted anything that anyone said about Japan with, “I’ve been here 15 years! [and therefore] my opinion on this is right, and you’re wrong!”
Those people are real scum.
Speaking of that event, there were some people whose positions aren’t even close to represented the list. Specifically, that woman who used to be Pizzicato Five’s manager, and the dude who runs a company that sells both language study aids and a DVD video tour of Kabukicho.
“Those people are real scum.”
Indeed. Especially when they don’t speak Japanese despite having been in the country for 15 years.
People love to apply this “time in Japan gives me magical knowledge by osmosis” business, but people who talk about their years like that always sound to me like they are talking about jail time.
One thing that I get all of the time in my line of work is MA and PhD proposals from people who have been in Japan for ages but don’t have any original ideas to show for it. It can be really quite sad, as they often see it as their big ticket back to the world, expecting everyone to bow down to the masterful understanding of the Japanese mind that 14 years of eikaiwa gave them. Their pitches are invariably based on chapters of “Dogs and Demons”.
Speaking of Japan experts who can’t speak any Japanese, where do we put Marxy’s nemesis, M0mu$ on the list?
“other foreign fighter/athlete”
Why is this so high up? In terms of Japan通 level, what does it mean that you are basically “Mr. Baseball”? Is this list merely about which jobs are cooler to have in Japan, or about which jobs give your more pissing rights as a “Japan hand”? This is about the “Japanese-language/Japanese culture knowledge “pissing contest.”” right? In this sort of thing, sake masters and ryokan okami would rank very highly. Danny Choo would probably be reasonably high in terms of expertise on semi-pornographic dolls (sorry, “figures”) wearing skimpy underwear. So anything that smacks of “token gaijin” ranks way low, including those where the gaijin is brought over to perform a specific role requiring no “Japan通”.
As regards race, Daniel-san (sorry again, but it’s required) is right: rather than “whitey” we should say “westie,” as while fewer than European there are certainly those of African descent living, working, and having a decent ol’ time in Japan.
If we include general “academic” in the “professor” clause, then I have been 10 of this list (haven’t yet been Emperor, dude….) if I consider that in terms of ease of work vs income private tutoring, which I have done before, is milking the system. And using Roy’s “university office” as well.
M0mu$ is considered a Japan expert by 3 of his readers and people who think that the Japanese really mean something else when they say 4 seasons.
I don’t think that M should be on the list at all as he can really only play his huge in Japan game when he’s in Germany.
Jade, you can’t count both “translator” and “translator who pisses on people”. That’s not fair.
Ha – if I did, it’d be 11. But I’m not a pissy kind of guy. As long as everyone inferior to me realises that and accepts my sublime superiority…..
I don’t think we can include “blogger” because you can be one of those while filling most of those other slots. There are blogging translators and blogging hostess-turned-authors and blogging journalists and teachers and what have you. I guess Bob Sapp is unlikely to blog because those fighting gloves make it hard to type.
Well, the list started as a very rough idea of the hierarchy concept, but it’s since grown so unwieldy that I am thinking of revising it as a “x thinks they are hot shit compared to y, and vise versa” standard (see above Geek Hierarchy link).
On the topic of eikaiwa career as jail time, I think that is BS. Malcolm X learned how to read by going through the entire dictionary while serving out his sentence.
Malcolm X wasn’t illiterate before he went to prison, but he had dropped out before high school so wasn’t very educated. He studied an awful lot in prison, but he did at least know how to read already.
“there are certainly those of African descent living, working, and having a decent ol’ time in Japan.”
That actually reminds me of a guy that I intervewed when I start my job,he was a former U.S coast guard sailor turns actor/model/music critic and when I interviewed him he was the biggest importer of pet ferrets.I remember helping him unbox dozens of wooden crates filled with ferrets imported from some ferret farm in the mid west.He did made a fortune with the ferret boom at the time.
This guy also showed me a catalogue of the next big thing and it was African Serval cat.This,was never materialized,I guess.
And as I write this so far,it reminds me of my yet another useless knowwledge.Bob Sapp too had a pet Serval……
Momus is an artist who has healthy interest in Japan but unhealthy interest to Marxy.period.
”there was this one dude who contradicted anything that anyone said about Japan with,I’ve been here 15 years! [and therefore] my opinion on this is right, and you’re wrong!”
Not this “I-live-among-the-Japanese-for-15-years!”chap,Curz?
From Marmot Hole:
\\\\\\\\\
Scipio
Posted February 18, 2009 at 9:37 am | Permalink
Sorry, I know that it’s not PC to say this, but after living among the japanese for the last 15 years, I agree with the guy’s observation about the Japanese.
Concerning the Koreans or Yanks,I wouldn’t know.
I’d even develop it a little further and say that the Japanese have a sense of themselves as a higher and unique form of humanity than ‘the other’ and therefore the experiences and feelings of ‘the other’ (the rest of humanity) are less important in any consideration.
With this last point, I’ve always assumed that the Koreans felt exactly the same.
However I would like to add that I find it hard to believe that Heur is considered a real academic in the USA.
OK, I should have said educated himself or something, but the way I remember reading it he was more or less functionally illiterate, or at least he realized that he only knew how to read basic stuff and talk in jive.
Aceface: Is the entire comment below the \\\\\ a quote, or did you add a little bit of commentary at the end?
Nope.
Nope to the latter or the former?
Just checked. The whole thing is the quote, as I thought.
Here’s a followup by the same guy basically stating that the only reason those dastardly Jappos aren’t invading and raping Korea again is because the govt. han’t bothered to yet:
“The Japanese people, as a whole, are passive because there government is passive, but don’t get the idea that the passivity is anything more than compliance with authority. They can turn on the edge of a coin and all that energy now placed in their economy can so easily be diverted to other tasks; if the government deems it so.”
They don’t need the government; a self-proclaimed expert on a variety show will do.
But seriously, yeah, that guy is a douche.
Some possible missing categories/people:
Foreign rock musicians in Japan – such as Marty Friedman, Paul Gilbert
Unless you think Bobby Valentine is a “token gaijin at a large corporation” or “foreign athlete”, he doesn’t seem to fit anywhere in the list. There are a few other foreigners managing sports teams as well such as John Kirwan with the national rugby squad. I can’t work out whether that should be a step up in status from “foreign athlete” or a step down on the basis that it is less glamorous. Then again, Terry Collins managed to hook up with Kansai tarento Silk when he was manager of Orix so there still seem to be opportunities.
Ditto Donald Richie. Ditto, that is, to not fitting on the current list, not ditto to managing a sports team. Is he a journalist or do you need a category like “writer” or “author” as well?
Disney gaijin (and other foreign performers at various theme parks and resorts) – there used to be a beer garden in Yurakucho which became a gathering point for various groups of foreigners. The staff assumed that all the foreigners were together so just ushered any new people to the nearest “westie” which sometimes led to a bit of status jousting: “I’m not an English teacher, I’m Snow White!”
Wives/housewives – Not all of them work so they won’t necessarily fit anywhere in the current list. Like Marie Tsukuda, former Vegas showgirl who married into a “samurai family”. She wrote one of my favourite lines: “I always thought the reason I drank so much was because I was stuck in Japan. It never dawned on me the reason I was stuck in Japan was because I drank so much.” Or Jane Singer Mizuguchi, wife of an independent Kyoto Prefectural Assembly Member. She does some copywriting and editing but is mainly a political wife, running her husband’s home and office.
If you have traditional craft (e.g. bonsai) students in the list then they surely must be trumped by those who have gone on to qualify as traditional craft teachers such as Keith Austin, the only foreigner to become a licensed Japanese swordsmith.
Politicians/councillors – like Anthony Bianchi
What about those 100% foreigners who were born in Japan? I have one friend, who doesn’t speak especially good Japanese, who always seems to get a ratings bounce when he lets slip he was born in Tokyo.
Another friend of mine recorded the English announcements for the Tokaido Shinkansen which were used for years. I always felt that nothing I did in Japan would ever quite match that achievement.
Now that we have blown away the comment record for a MFT post, I think I can tell you that the original inspiration for this post was listening to the TI/Rihanna song “Live Your Life” dozens of times in the gym. So everyone say a prayer for ya boy TIP while he serves out his prison sentence. (Plus the movie “Mean Girls” has a very similar message, thanks to Mrs. Adamu favorite Tina Fey):
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjSkGTGzHtw
Lyrics:
(Rihanna):
You’re gonna be a shining star, with fancy clothes, and fancy car-ars.
And then you’ll see, you’re gonna go far.
Cause everyone knows, just who you are-are.
So live your life, ay ay ay.
You Steady Chasin that paper.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
Ain’t got no time for no haters
Just live your life (Ay! ), ay ay ay.
No telling where it’ll take ya.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
Cause I’m a paper chaser.
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
Just living my life
(T.I.):
Never mind what haters say, ignore them ’til they fade away.
Amazing they ungrateful after all the game I gave away.
Safe to say I paved the way, for you cats to get paid today.
You still be wasting days away now had I never saved the day.
Consider them my protégé, homage I think they should pay.
Instead of being gracious, they violate in a major way.
I never been a hater still I love them, in a crazy way.
Some say they so yay and no they couldn’t get work on Labor day.
It aint that they black or white, their hands a area the shade of grey.
I’m West side anyway, even if I left the day it stayed away.
Some move away to make a way not move away cause they afraid.
I’ll go back to the hood and all you ever did was take away.
I pray for patience but they make me want to melt they face away.
Like I once made them scream, now I could make them plead their case away.
Been thuggin’ all my life, can’t say I don’t deserve to take a break.
You’d rather see me catch a case, and watch my future fade away.
(Rihanna):
You’re gonna be a shining star, with fancy clothes, and fancy car-ars.
And then you’ll see, you’re gonna go far.
Cause everyone knows, just who you are-are.
So live your life, ay ay ay.
Instead of chasing that paper.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
You got no time for no haters
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
No telling where it’ll take ya.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
Cause I’m a paper chaser.
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
Just Livin My Life.
(T.I.):
I’m the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished with the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid.
Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics.
Articulate but still would grab a nigga by the collar quick.
Whoever havin problems, with they record sale just holla TIP.
If that don’t work and all else fails, then turn around and follow TIP.
I got love for the game but ay I’m not in love with all of it.
I do without the fame and the rappers nowadays are comedy.
The hootin’ and the hollerin’, back and forth with the arguing.
Where you from, who you know, what you make and what kind of car you in.
Seems as though you lost sight of what’s important with the positive.
And checks until your bank account, and you’re about poverted.
Your values is a disarrayed, prioritizing horribly.
Unhappy with the riches cause you miss-poor morally.
Ignoring all prior advice and fore warning.
And we mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden aren’t we?
(Rihanna):
You’re gonna be a shining star, with fancy clothes, and fancy car-ars.
And then you’ll see, you’re gonna go far.
Cause everyone knows, just who you are-are.
So live your life, ay ay ay.
Instead of chasing that paper.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
You got no time for no haters
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
No telling where it’ll take ya.
Just live your life (Oh! ), ay ay ay.
Cause I’m a paper chaser.
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
Just living my life (ay), my life (oh), my life (ay), my life (oh)
[Rihanna]
Now everybody watchin what I do
Come walk in my shoes
And see the way that I’m livin if you really want to
I got my mind on my money and I’m not goin nowhere
So keep on gettin yo paper(ah ah)
And keep on climbin
Look in the mirror
And keep on shinin
Til the game end
Til the clock stop
We gon’ post up on the top spot
Livin’ the life, the life
In the brand new city
Got my whole team with me
Livin my life, my life
I do it how I wanna do
I’m livin’ my life, my life
I will never loose ’em
Livin my life, my life
And I’m not stoppin
So live your life.
Oh no, that’s not true! “Fuck Zapan” has 133 comments.
https://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/01/31/fuck-zapan-korean-anti-japanese-rap-song/
Followed by Gaijin in the Spotlight, basically a copypaste of a classic “Westerners’ Fear of the Neon Sign” post:
https://www.mutantfrog.com/2007/11/01/gaijin-in-the-spotlight/
“If you have traditional craft (e.g. bonsai) students in the list then they surely must be trumped by those who have gone on to qualify as traditional craft teachers such as Keith Austin, the only foreigner to become a licensed Japanese swordsmith.”
Oh yeah, absolutely katana trumps ikebana, just like martial arts trumps dance. This isn’t about real social value after all, it’s about coolness and bragging rights.
“On the topic of eikaiwa career as jail time, I think that is BS.”
What I mean is that people say, “Hey, I did my time so….” It becomes a defense of how “real” you are in Japan… and it doesn’t work.
Wait, what if it worked like jan-ken-pon?
I also want add naturalists in the category.Japanese natural history is full of foreign names starting from Siebold.This tradition still continues.
Names that came upon me are.
Nagano resident and writer/conservationist C.W Nichol who was boen Welsh had been worked for the government of Ethippia and Canada and then came to Japan as the manager for Canadian exhibit for EXPO’75 in Okinawa.
JT columnist and expert of Japanese countryside nature,Kevin Short is an American living in Chiba.
Another JT nature columnist and freelance naturalist Mark Brazil is a Brit.
Tree Climber,John Gathright is Canadian/American citizen and he is big in Aichi.
Jeremy Angel,a Brit who used to work for Hata”Mutsugoro”Masanori and was producer of his animal related show.
Richard C.Goris of Yokohama City Univ was one time chairman of the Herpetological Society of Japan and ex-priest of Salesian Society of Japan.
Jack Moyer,American marine biologist lived in Miyake Island for more than 60 years and commt suicide during whole island population had evacuated to Tokyo due to volcano erupt on the island.
French diver whose life had inspired the 1988 film “The Big Bluei” had second house in Chiba and spend most of his last days until he commit suicide in Alba,Italy in 2001.
American ornithologist and founder of International Crane Foundation at Barabpp,Wisconsin,George Archibald worked and studied Red Crowned Crane In Hokkaido in the 70’s and married to a Japanese woman.
There could be more,but I got to wash the dishes.
I think we agreed to exclude naturalized westies, like Nichol. Though I don’t see why: seems that is pretty high in the pissing stakes, though not, as M-B noted, in the “of any actual meaning” stakes.
A lot of these people might fall in the “academic” slot. Not sure how “woah” I would go on meeting some of them though – more like mild interest. Actually I wonder if we are considering our audience here – given that this is a game usually played among the more “lower” ranks, we need to consider what might impress them, rather than what impresses us (assuming all of us are above the pissing contests).
Another thing we seem to have missed is US forces in Japan.
“I teach English at the local Starbucks”
“I fly F-911A Stratofighters at Mach 45 straight down Fuji’s crater.”
Mind you, that’s not really “Japan通” pissing. Just sheer macho coolness pissing.
Good point Jade, but the military guys are pretty damn isolated from both Japanese and foreigners that don’t live right by the base. I mean, I’ve met people in almost every one of these categories on our list, and I’ve never once met an American military guy in Japan. Although I have met many ex-military who had been stationed in Japan back home, including at least one guy I know from high school. Of course, it’s probably very different down in Okinawa.
Is this kind of expat pissing match just as common in say, Korea? It definitely didn’t feel as strong in Taiwan, although of course present to some degree.
To find the source of a lot of the Japan pissing, I think that we need to go wayyyyyyy down to the bottom of the list as it is the eikaiwa teachers that really set the tone.
I mean, Japanese speaking execs probably don’t think that they have enough in common with the eikaiwa crew to even talk about “Japan通”, but you DO hear eikaiwa teachers trying to put themselves at the very top of the heap in terms like – My Japanese is more “real” than that exec’s because I speak Kansai-ben. He lives in Tokyo in a sheltered apartment while I live in the “real” Japan. He may be making mad cash, but you aren’t really experiencing Japan unless you eat konbini bento and ride your bike to work. Hell, I’ll bet he’s never even been gaijin carded! He’s just been in charge of design at Mazda for seven years. I’ve been in Japan for NINE years! He’s just a workaholic while I do cha no yu (butchered as sha no hugh) classes at the local temple 2 Tuesdays a month. The monk there says that I’m more Japanese than Japanese kids these days!
I think that it is really people that we are putting at the bottom of the food chain that set the tone for this whole discussion.
Military guys also have a very plain hierarchy that is quite central in their lives, they don’t need to make up fake ones on the side.
“The monk there says that I’m more Japanese than Japanese kids these days!”
That part is probably true, in terms of ‘culture’ at least. They probably think Sen-no-Rikyu is a character in Dragonball.
I would not assume expat pissing is as common in Korea as there are, I would guess, fewer of them (removing the military from the equation of course) and presumably in fewer walks of life (that is a total guess of course). Is there a sizeable expat population in Taiwan (on the same scale as Japan)? I would assume not, based on ignorance and the fact that I have never heard of an equivalent to the JET there.
And those in the top ranks know they are good, without the need to piss on people to reinforce their fragile egos. They can point to very real achievements, ideally more than simply breathing while being in Japan half their life. Eikaiwa people on the other hand are presumably conscious of their more relative ignorance, and I wonder if part of the problem is the conscious or unconscious way those with more nous and Japan通 look down on them, forcing them into a defensive mode. Perhaps those of us who have “done the time” (not in the eikaiwa sense) resent the loss of exclusivity, as some post somewhere once suggested, and take it out on the FOB westies. Or are they just anime otaku without any clues who are still in the whole “Woah dude” phase about Japan?
The expat pissing gets heat up in Korea blogsphere probably because of the presence of native English speaking Korean Americans/Canadians.
Imagine what would happen average 2ch type gets into the discussion in English J-blogs.You get the idea
.And expat there have ultimate weapon to insult host nation.Japan-Korea comparison,that is.
And that happens among the Japnese expats in Korea too.There used to be a thread in 2ch called “HAN Board”started by those who were banned or marginalized from one discussion board run by Zainichi academic.There were really heated discussion there because the commenters were mix of Japanese and Zainichi.But then again,it was still moderate compared to the shit piles that is now in many Korea related thread in 2ch.
There is nothing like JET, although there is a very small Fulbright program similar to JET’s precursor, but it doesn’t function in the big cities anyway. There are, however, a VERY large number of eikaiwa teachers working at buxiban (補習班) schools, Taiwan’s equivalent to juku as well as a decent number of foreign English teachers in high schools and college, although not through a formal program. Korea is the same, with a huge number of English teachers in haegwan, aka their version of buxiban or juku, but no substantial government program similar to JET.
Taipei at least certainly does have a pretty decent expat community, if you add up the foreign language teachers, the foreign students (hundreds if not thousands of foreigners studying Chinese at any given time, plus a LOT more non-Asians getting degrees than in Japan), businesspeople, engineers, etc. Taiwanese companies also seem to hire a lot more foreigners as office workers and so on than in Japan. It may not be as many as in Tokyo per capita (or it may, I’m really not sure) but foreigners are definitely more present in Taipei than anywhere in Japan outside of Tokyo, with the possible exception of Kyoto.
Then again, people are a lot less impressed by mere “foreignness” in Taiwan than in Japan, even modern “internationalized” Japan. I think this has something to do with Taiwan having both its own diaspora and tight connections with the “overseas Chinese”/greater China cultural sphere, which it is a party of despite also being an independent country. Much of the Taiwanese elite also lives to some lesser or greater between Taiwan and some other country, such as the US.
Anyway, regardless of WHY Taiwanese are generally less impressed by foreigners than Japan (don’t read UNimpressed- being foreign is inherently interesting in any country, and there are still loads of people who want to practice their English or French or whatever), I think this gets to part of the reason why the gaijin hierarchy is such a big thing in Japan: i.e. the often absurd amounts of attention foreigners can get here, as well as the absurd amount of praise you get for things like basic skills Japanese or being able to use chopsticks properly. This sort of thing can get to people’s heads and artificially inflate egos, or for people who understand that this sort of praise is most common in the beginning stages, give more impetus to get good enough to avoid the empty praise. Without the sort of ritualistic empty praise that foreigners get in Japan for the most basic skills, would the pissing match be as intense?
And the comment threads on Marmot are terrifying. Too bad, since the actual posts can be pretty good.
Let’s keep adding comments to this post. I’m going to add a completely unrelated link which is nonetheless awesome: http://www.asovision.com/gun/movie.html
I’m buying me one of those clocks.
Roy makes a good point about attention from Japanese inflating egos. I also think that we can add the cultural oomph that Japan has (as opposed to China or Korea) in “the West” – many people would think that training as a sushi chef is awesome but don’t know what kimchee is. We also have haiku, tea ceremony, kimono, etc. Much of the pissing, I think is short-timers trying to cash in on some of the cultural pizzazz that Japan seems to have “back home”.
The military aren’t that set apart from the rest of the foreign community in Japan. I come across them fairly often. When the US closed bases in the Philippines, they relocated a lot of personnel to Japan so the numbers rose quite noticeably at that time. Many of them had married local girls in the Philippines and, since their wives were in Japan legally, quite a few earned pin money cleaning and cooking for expats which helped bring those two groups together. There are also a number of ex-military types who settled in Japan and still keep in touch with their old service. On top of that, the military hold several events for the public and work with international schools so they are there to meet if you are so inclined. I think it is more that other foreigners tend to keep their distance.
When you speak with foreigners who have been in Japan since at least the sixties, it’s clear that pissing contests were common well before Fulbright, BET or JET so eikaiwa and English teachers didn’t add anything new to the mix in terms of the quality of the pettiness. With so many more of us in Japan these days, however, there’s probably been an impact on quantity.
Incidentally, I don’t see diplomats in the list. Not just the ambassadors but other embassy officials. I’ve always thought I’d like to have their their perks but not their jobs.
I used to come across military types fairly often too. However, in my experience even the ones whose Japanese is proficient stay out of the pissing contests. Would you want to piss on a marine? I certainly wouldn’t. Especially not one with 23,000 odd friends in the area.
One group I would like to have on the list though is transient airline crew hanging out in gaijin bars. Those guys can be royal ass-hats and they do tend to play up their local knowledge (of bars, standard tourist attractions, Japanese girls and “Japanese customs”) garnered from their years of stopping in Osaka on the way to Jakarta or whatever. They would be way on the bottom of my list.
This post and the comments were particularly interesting, as having been an expat in many countries, I’ve never seen quite the level of internecine sniping that goes on among the expat community (western/english speaking) in Japan compared to other places. There is often a particular glee in bagging various members of the expat community not to mention the schadenfreude when a formerly successful person takes a cropper. This has become particularly visible in the last few years with the rise of blogging. (or could it be because expats in Japan are more likely to blog?)
Another point in the original post hits a particular tender spot – the fallacious idea that fluency in a language and length of tenure in a place somehow means you are now an expert in all aspects. Many people wouldn’t be able to reasonably understand many of their home culture’s subgroups, neither being in contact with them or having the observational/emphatic skills to note what’s going on around them. As an example I’ve seen posts by men saying they know what Japanese women are like because they have a Japanese girlfriend/wife, where if in their home country they said they knew all about women because they had a girlfriend/wife – they’d be laughed out of the room. A git with good language skills is still a git.
“they’d be laughed out of the room.”
Amen.
I think the main reason expats in Japan blog more is pretty simple: because there’s more of an audience for it. Japanese culture is cool and a lot of people want to read about it all around the world. Note how small the proportion of Japan blogs devoted to political topics is compared to cultural ones.
Donald Richie was writing in his “JAPAN JOURNAL”on the scene of him,Karel Van Wolfren and Edward Seidensticker having dinner together at his place and doing their usual Japan pissing such as “Why Japanese can’t even debate like westerners” and wondered “Are expats living in other countries do the same?”.
My answer is Japan is like Israel.Those who are not interested can’t even point where it is.But those who do have interest have strong opinion whether they are positive or negative.And unlike Israel,Japan does not possess representative voice in abroad.Which means the role will be filled by foreigners with Japanese experience and they will be the one to confront the controversy,either that is over trade,whaling,WW2 or blackfaced comedian on TV.Their opinons can be either subjective or objective,yet always being presented as”That’s what the Japanese think”.
And the difference or stance in these dispute can easily be the sources of conflict among Japan hands and expats.One calling the other, the hater or the tool.
These phenomenon don’t happen in small countries which have few beef with the outside world.Also don’t happen to world powers that can defend their own reputation themselves in global arena.Japan doesn’t fall into neither of the category.
So there you have it.Great gaijin wars over Japan.
Related.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/japan-passing-in-ceo-deci_b_165057.html
OK thank you Ace for pushing us over the edge and making this the most commented post on MFT ever. Thanks to everyone for making it happen!
Just goes to show that the favourite topic of expats in Japan is expats in Japan…..
Re: that Huffpost thing. Since when is hosting Crichton for his “Rising Sun” research something to brag about? That had all of the nuance of “The Hand of Fu Manchu”. Makes me wonder if Connery went down to that association to practice his Japanese.
”Just goes to show that the favourite topic of expats in Japan is expats in Japan…..”
Well,at least that’s what everyone can talk about.Me.
“Since when is hosting Crichton for his “Rising Sun” research something to brag about?”
Better yet.Clemmons was making “cartel of minds”type of allegation to Japan Society for not having Iris Chang lecture back then……
I followed the link from James Fallows blog.They are pals.
What pisses me off is Fallows had called Clemmons post on Huffpost “Brave”on his blog.Since when does attacking a target that won’t hit you back become a brave journalistic practice?Shooting Japanese diplomat is pretty much like shooting a fish in a barrel.
I was also pissed off with Fallows saying,Japan Society may not be the Japanese AIPAC,Having former Japanese ambassador as president should have been considered as equivalent of having Israeli as the head of AIPAC.This is red herring at best,fearmongering at worst.
Grrrrrr…..
Make this threat goes 150.I’m not done yet!
The US thinktank and lobby infrastructure has been burning France and German for not putting boots on the ground and for protectionism, Canada for apparently gaming NAFTA and undermining US drug companies, and that’s just the obsessive knocking of majority white countries. After 2008-2009, is anybody going to be in the mood to listen to this stuff any more? After a point, it starts being a matter of rolling the eyes rather than punching back.
Clemons and friends end up sounding just like an American version of foaming at the mouth anti-China Japanese hacks like Sakurai Yoshiko. I’m disappointed in the Huffpost – somebody needs to remind them that the Japan bash often ends up channelling that far right spirit.
One thing for sure is Clemons is no “far right”(the man wants Washignton
to make peace with Cuba) and he used U.S-Japan relation only as his spring board to get to K street in his early years.Which is why the word Japan only comes up in negative context in any of his writings,and like M-Bone that also reminded me of Sakurai Yoshiko and her China commentary.
But the difference is Sakurai never pretends that her commentary is a tough love for the “healthy” Sino-Japanese relation.We all know that.That’s why she only appears in the limited media and largely ignored by China policy circles.
However in case of Clemons…..
He attacked Japanese Instititute of International Affairs for removing minor online column of one of the researcher after Komori Yoshihisa of Sankei criticized it(Komori’s argument is the commentary do not reflects the past decision of Japanaese government and also contradicts it’s position in multiple ways and could confuse foreign observers,which has points whether you like or agree with Komori or not.And Clemens made this into hyperbole over WaPO by connecting unassociated right-wing threat to LDP’s Kato Kouichi and accused Komori for orchestrating right-wingers to violate political freedoms in Japan.In his view JIIA case is a Japanese version of Kristallnacht,which is BS.I mean,Komori is only doing exactly the same thing but only in the limited scale,just asking to remove one of the online column,while Clemons making issue over the choice of the CEO of an institute because of his nationality.
Having Clemons in a major Japan policy position in any institution is pretty much like having Norman Podhoretz on the top of middle eastern policy.All you get is a seamless stream of hawkish ideas and worst case scenario and warped perception of local reality for those who have little or zero knowledge on what he’s talking about.
What exactly is “far right” these days anyway? Clemons, I gather, not only played some role in the writing of “Rising Sun” but was an advisor on the film. Cuba aside, I don’t see Sean Conner’s objective scientific understanding of the minds of those crazy Orientals and naked yellow perilism to be leftwing projects.
“That’s why she only appears in the limited media and largely ignored by China policy circles.”
Agreed. However, there are other similarities. Sakurai has been feigning a concern for the human rights of China’s minorities in order to… well, suggest that Japanese are superior. I see the same thing going on in Rising Sun. Maybe it isn’t the best idea to keep harping on that one, but Clemons has not distanced himself from it and continues to echo its “insidious invasion” tone with writings like the Huffpost thing. It is a stream of hawkishness, that’s for sure.
But… this is 2009. For every American who follows Clemons’ Japan stance there are 1000 “Kanon” fanboys who think that Japan is some kind of paradise on earth. I think that the worm has turned.
There’s an Amazon.com review on Japanese transaltion of “RS”
”読んでいる最中に、私自身が知っている人物や建物に酷似する箇所が出てきて妙な既視感に捕らわれました。それもそのはず、筆者がこの小説を書く上で世話になった人の名を挙げて巻末で謝辞を述べていますが、その中に私が90年にロサンゼルスで一緒に仕事をした人の名前が含まれているのです。”
Wondering where this individual worked for.
According to Frank Rich we might see a bunch of unemployed business school kids out here soon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/opinion/22rich.html
LOL on the revised hierarchy!
Those street performers should get more cred. They might make more than you think.
I just noticed where’s “bartender” on that list?
Good call, lots of gaijin bartenders, especially those Irish pub owners.
Should we put Japanese Irish pub owner who has never been to Ireland at the bottom of the list?
According to Frank Rich we might see a bunch of unemployed business school kids out here soon
So far I’ve never really been able to dredge up antipathy for the Eikaiwa crowd, but if this happens I might have to start.
Talking with a lot of soon to graduate students – I can testify to the fact that the recession has people feeling jittery and this year, teaching English in Japan is seen by many as some kind of gold-tinted salvation.
M-Bone: If (s)he can pull a good Guinness, (s)he is more useful than the eikaiwa teacher as far as I am concerned.
Cool – we should put “bartender who can pull a good Guinness” above Konishiki.
wow… just going back to Fumie Hosokawa & Brian Hulse…..
I was friends with Brian…. when I lived in Osaka (he was an awesome performer….. would rake in thousands – is usd equivalent in a few hours)…
One day he brought Fumie over to my ‘apato’…. I had no idea who she was and basically just spent the 2 hours talking to Brian while my wife (then girlfriend) spoke to Fumie… now my wife knew she was talking to celebrity and was freaking out…..
I only found out after she left who Fumie really was….. always think its funny 2 guys in the room completely ignoring Fumie
“2 guys in the room completely ignoring Fumie”
Clearly she wasn’t displayed her twin reasons for fame in any meaningful sense….
“Clearly she wasn’t displayed her twin reasons for fame in any meaningful sense”
yeah…. I only heard about that later….. regretted I didn’t know … if not I would have tried to confirm it… lol