I’ll be moving back to Japan in April after spending nearly 4 years living in the US and Thailand. Even though I’ve spent the entire time preoccupied with events in Japan and working as a Japanese-English translator, not to mention living with Mrs. Adamu, I feel I must try and brace myself for some of the conventions that I had once been used to. Today, when I placed a call to the local branch of the Funabashi City Hall to inquire about marriage procedures, the man who dealt with me (not sure if he was in charge of marriage registrations or dealing with foreigners) spoke in that endearing Pidgin Japanese where the main vocabulary is replaced by katakana English but the grammar and verbs remain in Japanese. Some people would have been annoyed by the use of such language, especially those who have spent years trying to learn Japanese such as myself. But I’ve gotten used to it and don’t mind as long as the people are nice and give me what I want. And I’m sure that this person has dealt with many foreigners with limited/nonexistent Japanese ability. My only issue was that the man wouldn’t answer a few simple questions, launched into a tortured explanation of the process that I was already aware of, and insisted I let him talk to my ‘garufurendo’ ‘dairektuo ni’. Blech.
Anyway, speaking of blech, Mr. Donut is offering a new limited edition maccha (green tea) flavored donut until the beginning of April. Behold:
They have infused their ‘old fashioned’ type donut with maccha essence. I usually like maccha-flavored stuff, but this looks like they’ve gone and ruined their best donut. This development just reminds me that Mr. Donut and Krispy Kreme will be catering to a distinctly different set of customers. I look forward to trying them both when I get back (there is Mr. Donut in Thailand but it sucks).
(Link/pic via J-Cast news)
This doesn’t frustrate you? If it doesn’t know, believe me — it will…
It depends how your formal/polite Japanese is in how to react to this. Some honkies get outraged, and others try and be sarcastic, both of which are, in my mind, mistakes. In my mind, politeness is key — and the great thing about Japanese is that, in many respects, the more politely you speak, the more condescending you can sound when you sneak in the slightest barb. I call it the “polite humiliation” approach, such as trying to get them to explain the definition of the katakana words they just made up, and advising that it may not be the wisest thing to use words for which one does not understand the definition.
And this is me coming fresh from my own recent conquest of Japan’s bureaucratic system, at the Ministry of Justice in the heart of Kasumigaseki!
I havent tried the matcha donut but they’re promoting it heavily.
I love Japan but rural Japan is like rural US or rural Thailand – i.e. they are ignorant and inexperienced with the world outside of their rice paddy or pachinko parlor.
Is Mrs. Adamu from Funabashi? You should move your honseki to Tokyo if you’ll be living/working there. You don’t get that kind of talk at the Minato-ku kuyakusho.
It’s definitely frustrating, but you’re absolutely right, getting outraged or sarcastic is totally counterproductive, especially when dealing with bureaucrats. It’s important to remain polite but firm and know what you want. And while this guy’s katakana-isms were well-honed enough for me to understand him, I’m more than prepared to demand explanations for meaningless gibberish if it comes my way, in mangled Engrish or other forms.
Congratulations again on your ‘conquest’ (pretty sure I know what you’re talking about). I think I’m gearing up for a mini-battle against the Ministry of Justice myself — or at least its Immigration Bureau. I have a feeling they might not like my idea of coming to Japan on a temporary visitor visa, marrying Mrs. Adamu within days, and then applying to change my status to ‘spouse of a Japanese national.’
Ｔｉｍｅ ｔｏ ｓｔａｒｔ ｄｏｕｇｈｎｕｔ ｃｒｅｄｉｔａｔｉｏｎ ｓｃｈｅｍｅ，Ａｄａｍｕ．
Gen: She is from Funabashi. We’re thinking of living somewhere in either western Chiba or eastern Tokyo to be closer to her family. Ideally I’d like to live in the India Town in Nishi-Kasai, Edogawa-ku since it’s both conveniently located and features authentic curry and jasmine rice. Mmmmm…
Ace: No way. Arbitrary certification of donuts would stifle the good innovations, like curry or kinako donuts. This new matcha kind should be given its due chance to flop miserably (or succeed if it’s actually decent).
Ｐｅｒｈａｐｓ the Ｋａｔａｋａｎa Ｅｎｇｌｉｓｈ creditation scheme ｔｈｅｎ？
Anyway you will get used to both Japanglish and Japanized doughnuts.
I recommend Nishi-Kasai.Disneyland-town Urayasu,Chiba side of Edo river has fantastic library with lots of English books and magazines and newspapers,also recommended.
Hopefully it won’t be an issue — but be prepared to answer lots of questions. It may be better to conduct a hardcore search for a job in the first two months, get sponsored, and get a work visa to make your life simpler, on many levels.
The Donut accreditor would also be a shortlived profession. We would all be stricken with diabetes and on life support in months.
Since no one else has, I shall post my review of the Mr Donuts Matcha Donut:
Nice colour. No discernable green tea flavour though. And last time I went there they didn’t have any. But sure, they have good texture, being the Old Fashioned sort, a sweetish but bland flavour, and a lovely green colour, so impress your gaijin friends back home, and be thankful the squid ink boom has passed….
The real blech ones were the tofu ones they tried out. Cheap and nasty.
You can eat one green donut and have an hour to spend shopping afterward, or you can stand in the Krispy Kreme line for a non-green version.
I find a burst of fluent Japanese before I get around to telling them my foreign devil name is usually enough to stave off any katakana foolishness. Works great on the phone. Even in person I can’t really remember the last time I dealt with someone too dense to figure out I was speaking the same language as him . . .
So the magic ingredient is *food coloring?!* OK, maybe we do need donut certification.
Durf: This guy wasn’t having any of that. I am often less than successful convincing people to give up their katakana foolishness perhaps because of my accent/general awkwardness when speaking Japanese. Speaking Japanese all the time will be something else I have to get used to.
“I recommend Nishi-Kasai.Disneyland-town Urayasu,Chiba side of Edo river has fantastic library with lots of English books and magazines and newspapers,also recommended.”
No doubt the fireworks are spectacular too!
Adamu: As the accent improves and the awkwardness goes away you’ll see less and less of that katakana-response stuff. That’s been my experience, anyway. The other day I called and asked for a cab to come around, and it took me about four tries to get the name ピーター across . . . The woman on the other end tried 脇田様？北様？ and on and on. (Maybe that’s a condemnation of my accent too, though? At least I might sound like a mush-mouthed native, I suppose.)
Regardless of where you end up, let’s hit Tsukiji again soon when you get back. I’ll take you to my favorite “standing sushi bar,” and the food is on me.
As with many matcha-flavored items, the new old fashioned (sounds like a Suntory whisky) looks and smells like it has green teas in it, but any flavor is overhwelmed by the sugar and, in the case of the choco version, the chocolate. I like them.
The procedures for switching to a spousal visa were recently tightened, there’s a longer, more personal questionnaire for your wife (mine found it offensive) and they want to know the names and places of residence for even your extended family.
Little things can help a lot, even if they’re unofficial. Bring pictures of the two of you together, especially if the photos are older. Get a note from her father. And, yes, I think CUrzon is right – get a job, any job, register as married and living together, then go for a spousal visa.
None of those things are official, but they do make the process a little bit smoother. Don’t forget that you’re going to need an affidavit from the US Embassy saying that you’re not married already and that can take half a day easily.
The getting a job part might be one rough spot we’ll have to weather. It doesn’t look like anyone so far is willing to sponsor me sight unseen, but I’ll certainly keep looking for any translating/editing/whatever work and see if someone will sponsor me. Still, I think we’ll file for the visa change soon after we arrive.
The questionnaire was pretty offensive, but I guess they have to do something to try and weed out the sham marriages. We’ll be submitting photos and e-mails too if they need them.
Adamu – Durf is right. Last time I did something similar the person on the other end thought my name was that of a company…(?!) You’ll know you have the accent more or less right when you call say the city office about something gaijin-related (you-related) and they ask you to ask this gaijin some details and you have to explain that no, you are in fact that person.
However I wouldn’t get upset at people trying katakaneigo on you – they’re just trying to help. Or show off. I often get, in the middle of a conversation in otherwise normal Japanese, someone ‘explaining’ a word (usually the simplest) in katakaneigo. It’s the only one they know, and they want to try it out.
I think too that the ‘gaijin no spikka da nihongo’ idea has paled greatly. Jack Seward, who was here a couple of decades ago (one of those who learned his Japanese in the US Army training schools in WW2) found that no matter how hard he tried (in what he described as perfect Japanese) sometimes it was no use. He said that when he stayed at ryokan, what he would do is call the maid for something, and when she arrived be writing out the Kyouiku Chokugo in calligraphy, and ask her for the reading of a particularly obscure kanji. Luckily I have never had to do that….
My most recent approach to pidgin Japanese has been to feign misunderstanding for a second, repeat the term in Japanese and then continue as if nothing happened. That usually nips it right in the bud.
Man, I hated dealing with Minato-ku. Whenever I went down there, I had to deal with a really, really fruity civil servant who always insisted on speaking English, and even started speaking English when he was on the phone with my landlord.
Shibuya-ku also pisses me off. I never lived there, but I had to deal with an administrative bonehead in the alien registration section while I was doing some transactional work, and he kept on making up laws (like “you have to handwrite the person’s name on the power of attorney form”).
Chiyoda-ku, now that was nice. The only people sharing the gaijin section with me were zainichis, and the building was actually kind of close to a few subway lines.
The US would be giving your fiancée a hard time if she tried the same thing. (details) It’s sort of an understandable issue. You’ve just entered the country without giving the authorities any chance to do any meaningful background check on you, so you should probably expect hurdles if you want them to grant you long-term residency. The textbook thing to do in most places seems to be getting married and then applying for a visa outside the country.
Also, as much as I hate dealing with clueless civil servants at city hall in Japan, dealing with pissed-off civil servants at the American Embassy is even worse.
Let me be clear – I’m not upset or anything that the guy used katakana english, even though it wasn’t the best way for him to communicate with me. It is clear he was sort of trying to be helpful. And I don’t question his motives for doing so either. He was just being annoying by not answering my questions and asking to talk to my fiancee instead. My Japanese may be accented but it’s not hard to understand. I clearly explained to the guy what I wanted, and I know he understood because he would answer one question and then interrupt me by trying to get me to hand the phone over.
And fact is this treatment has been kind of rare for me – it’s definitely a new era of gaijin talents and increased contact with foreigners. Even this guy didn’t try and speak ENGLISH with me, just Japanese mixed with katakana words.
It might be true that Japanese people often don’t know how to deal with foreigners who can speak Japanese, but at the same time I wonder why a lot of gaijin (myself included) get so sensitive about how they’re treated in terms of language skills. I don’t really expect my accent to go away very easily, just as I never expect that I’ll really attain native fluency in the language, so I think it’s only natural that I’m treated a little differently based on how I communicate. Frustration can definitely set in when *no one* seems willing to use “real” Japanese with you, but if they don’t know you or your vocabulary/comprehension skills very well, there’s just no helping it.
In Thailand, I’ve had very little trouble communicating using a mixture of English and broken Thai. I attribute this to the very large population of English-speaking foreigners here and the general flexibility of Thai people when it comes to communication, especially when it comes to selling me something. The irony is I have more trouble dealing with Japanese people like the man I spoke to on the phone because he’s more preoccupied with dealing with one of his own kind and making sure he uses as many English words than he is with dealing with my inquiries.
If you want to go somewhere and speak to Japanese people who are used to speaking Japanese with foreigners, you should come to Bangkok and mingle with the 30,000-plus Japanese population here, especially the people running translation agencies. They employ Thai staff and have years of experience dealing with foreigners with various Japanese levels. I have never yet met anyone who tried the katakana pidgin English trick with me (there aren’t many “language beggars” either).
I help Japanese tourists at random whenever I’m in New York. It’s my way of “getting back at them.”
“Empire State Biru wa acchi ya de!”
But yes, I agree that bureaucratic incompetence is far more annoying in the long run than propensity to use bad English. Nothing in Japan comes easily when you’re dealing with the government. I still love Joi Ito’s argument that the whole Cool Biz concept was just part of the government’s broader policy to make people suffer so they feel like they’re “taking one for the team.”
Do you honestly believe that? Or are you just buying the hype that has been shoved down your throat by small-minded and (at best subconsciously) bigoted Japanese people?
I haven’t exactly resigned myself to it, but I do feel I need some work. There are lots of people who go their whole lives without completely mastering a language they’ve studied and there’s no shame in it I think.
I tend to think that “small-minded Japanese people” set the bar unrealistically high in judging whether someone is fluent in Japanese because either they think that foreigners can’t truly master the language or that’s just the way they think about foreign language acquisition. In their mind any mistake is unacceptable. It’s the same kind of thinking that causes J-government officials to get nitpicky when the US government calls the 金融庁 the Financial Service Agency instead of the Financial Services Agency. You make one mistake and instantly you lose all credibility. Who can meet those standards? I don’t think it would be productive of me to try unless it’s absolutely required.
Okay, look, here’s the perspective you need to have:
How does my Japanese stack up against President Bush’s English?
See? All you have to do is lower the bar!
But seriously, I don’t think you ever “master” a language. Thinking that way is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Nobody speaks any language perfectly, even their own. And Japanese are culprits just like we are: go to a bookstore in Tokyo and you’ll see all sorts of “master Japanese” and “master kanji” books, which are targeted at native Japanese adults!
You’ve been out of the country four years. It’s only natural.
Nah, it depends on 1.) how you make the mistake, and 2.) if you can cover your ass well enough.
The ultimate question is: how to you respond to exclamations of, “Hot damn your Japanese is good!”
“Empire State Biru wa acchi ya de!”
LOL!
I’m Japanese so I can’t get away with fun stuff like Caucasians who speak Japanese can.
“The getting a job part might be one rough spot we’ll have to weather. ”
Let me know if I can help. If you’re doing translation work already, I assume you’re on all those key mailing lists. We found our vendor via one of those lists.
Adamu, if nothing else, you can take a shitty job you have no intention of doing, like and eikaiwa job, just to get the visa, then quit.
Adam, don’t listen to Garrett, I don’t.
1) You will have no trouble whatsoever getting a spouse visa. I’ve seen people get them on tourist visas. You have the massive advantage of the fact that you’re already together and engaged. If you do the paperwork at city hall and get legally married, submit the visa forms and you will be good.
2) I know someone looking for translators/editors. It’s mostly physical sciences and medical (some of it is crazy nuts), but the business is growing and she needs people who are good…it’s not full-time but good cash.
To get back to the “real” subject at hand:
You don’t need to actually swallow the donut to accredit it. Otherwise wine tasters would get piss drunk on a routine basis.
Then how do you accredit otherwise,ToastR?
You are not telling us the beef.
He means that you could just chew the donut and spit it out without swallowing, like how a wine taster just swishes it around in their mouth and then spits it out again. The image of a bunch of guys standing around in a circle spitting chewed donuts into a bucket is just revolting though.
learning something new everyday!
I own a bucket I would be happy to donate to the cause.
Also, my company isn’t hiring full-time, but we’re usually looking for freelance translators to add to our roster . . . Send me mail if you’d like to hear more.
Ken and Durf, are those tempting offers open to all MF readers?
Not sure if freelance is enough for a spouse visa though: I understand you have to show proof of sufficient earnings (ie tax records etc), so it might cut it if the work is reasonably regular. Otherwise if Mrs Adamu’s parents are working, or possibly even if they’re not, you could get them to be your sponsors, or even force Mrs Adamu to work.
Being a spouse is sufficient for a spouse visa. You only need to worry about that minimum income level if you’re going for a 国際業務人文知識 status of residence or whatever is appropriate for your work type. That’s what I have now, but I’ll be going for the 永住権 next time I renew.
The offer from me is open to all. The company has an ongoing invitation to freelancers to contact us and send in resumes, so come on come all!
Hi, Mr. Adamu! I’m a Japanese-to-English translator myself and about to move back to the North American Continent (to Montreal). I’m American and incredibly apprehensive about moving back to the Continent after 4 years in Japan. I’ve only seen just this post, but I’m really interested to know what kind of reverse-culture-shock you experienced after moving back home. Any comments you have would be appreciated – I’ll also search your site for answers : )