Macias vs KerrSeptember 11th, 2007 by Adamu |
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The recent opening of Neojaponisme and its ambitious manifesto has my mind swimming with conflict over the role of Western expats in Japan.
So I feel this was the perfect timing for me to have come across Patrick Macias’ 2nd most recent podcast entitled “Akihabara Wars.” (MP3)
Initially I thought the general theme was “Patrick takes a walk around Akihabara and meets with some of the Westerners who consider it a second home.” There’s an interesting (if really unnerving) talk with an Italian bishojo magazine publisher at an event promoting a minor idol and a brief chat with an American college student whose side job is giving tours of Akihabara while wearing a Dragonball Z costume (I remember him from his interview in Cyzo!). Finally Macias talks with someone who insists with complete self-satisfaction that the entertainment in Akihabara is a direct equivalent to Japan’s culture of “ritualized entertainment” as found in the tea ceremony and sees absolutely “nothing to worry about” regarding the mass commercialization of otaku culture and overdevelopment of the Akihabara area because “it will go somewhere else.”
The arguments and attitude sounded somewhat familiar, but it was not until I actually checked Macias’ “Mind of Godzilla” blog for more info (I subscribe to the podcast via a fairly low-tech podcast aggregator) that I found the nerdy voice belonged to none other than longtime Japan commentator Alex Kerr.
As is usual for Macias, he mixes light material with a more serious look at his subject matter. He has turned off comments for this post, which I understand as comments like the one I want to offer would be a major buzzkill to his main audience. But I will offer it anyway because the meeting has insights not just on Kerr’s or Macias’ views or even Akihabara but on the differences among expat commentators on Japan.
I’d love to transcribe what I heard, but it is difficult for me to really get any free time these days. Please please go listen for yourself.
Reactions:
- He sounds like a completely different person in English – Despite having met Kerr before and listening to him speak in Japanese for more than an hour, I did not even recognize it was Kerr being interviewed until I checked Macias’ site As I wrote before, in Japanese he has the mannerisms of Pvt. Charles Jenkins. But in English he sounds a lot like a nerdy college student (which is who I thought Macias was talking to until I checked).
- When speaking on the fly and not from his prepared Dogs and Demons speech, Kerr’s views on Japan seem amazingly half-formed, almost as if he can barely be bothered except for the areas of Japan that he is he says he is actually worried about “saving.” When Macias offers up the arguments that otaku culture a) was originally a niche market for Japan’s true outcasts but has now been adopted by the cool people (media aimed at the mainstream and even the Japanese government) for their own ends; and b) The intense passion otaku have for their hobbies can partly be explained as an outlet for dissatisfaction with the status quo, Kerr seems unwilling to really consider them and basically repeats his interpretation of maid cafes and other otaku culture as “ritualized” entertainment. I don’t think he really understands otaku culture and hasn’t really thought about how it fits in with his view of Japan except to dismiss it as part of the unhealthy condition of the Japanese soul.
- In Kerr’s mind, the fact that the streets of Akihabara do not look all that different from a typical street in Japan seem to disqualify it from any meaningful recognition. If it doesn’t look like a row of machiya then why bother?
- What is it that allows people like Macias to so easily connect with Japanese people and culture on a human level, and what makes that same feat equally difficult for people like Kerr? Ironically, Kerr is fluent in Japanese while Macias is only decent. This problem I suspect is partly generational – much like Steven Segal who railed against uncouth young yakuza in his Into the Sun – Kerr is probably just stuck in his ways and while he might be somewhat hostile to otaku culture he seemed totally at ease and genuinely concerned when I saw him condemn concrete rivers to a crowd of obasan in Bangkok. I’ll probably be like that when I get older too – I already think Pokemon is far inferior to Power Rangers.
As I mentioned, listening to them talk was fascinating not just for the issues they discussed but because of who they are – both of them are making their livings as interpreters of Japanese culture but have gone about it in wildly different ways. Kerr presents himself as someone completely immersed in Japanese culture, a “more Japanese than the Japanese” campaigner for a return to traditional aesthetics. On the other hand, Macias keeps a lot of cultural distance because he works on reaching an American audience. The discussion makes me wonder if the two extremes I see in these people – get to close to the culture and it changes you, keep too much distance and you miss the details – are really mutually exclusive.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Not to be lazy, but could you link the mp3?
September 11th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
http://patrickmacias.blogs.com/er/files/akihabara_wars.mp3
This is the best I can do for you right now!
September 11th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Glad you brought attention to that interview. I too felt a bit underwhelmed by Kerr.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Not to come across as a Kerr groupie, but I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to have anything worth saying about otaku culture or Akihabara as it’s not his area of expertise. Just like you wouldn’t normally refer to Macias for comment on Japanese business or political trends.
“What is it that allows people like Macias to so easily connect with Japanese people and culture on a human level, and what makes that same feat equally difficult for people like Kerr?”
That’s quite an assumption. I think you might be inferring a bit too much from the podcast.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Youre right, perhaps I am not able to read his mind as well as I seem to think I can, but let me put it another way – how can Alex Kerr look at all the creativity and life of otaku culture and see nothing but “ritual” (used as a kind of epithet) and the direct inheritance of timeless tradition… it struck me as a really dismissive and even dehumanizing attitude as if none of the people involved deserve much credit. Elsewhere when the topic of misogyist themes in otaku culture comes up he conjures up a metaphor that goes something like “If bees make a nest near my house I don’t blame the bees” (I’ll go back and correct this later if no one beats me to it).
September 11th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Abe is resigning.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:09 am
Regarding the metaphor, I thought he was commenting on criticism of otaku culture that isolates its negative aspects without taking into account the broader social context. It sounded like a valid point at the time I listened to it. As for his “ritual” comments, did he really reduce everything to that? My memory’s a little fuzzy.
I wish the Macias-Kerr discussion could have had its own podcast, that way we might have a clearer picture of where they both stand in relation to one another.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:21 am
I got a day off today and that’s why while my colleagues are probably scrambling in the office for Abe resignation, I can write commentary on minor topic such as Macias Kerr debate…..
I side with Adamu.Kerr’s problem is mentioning(and judging)topics he really doesn’t know very well.
I was so furious when he wrote on Shiraishi Takashi(Kyodai’s director of South East Asian study)in a character assacination like manner in D&D.
The dude is basically an antique dealer,not much else.
This is strictly coming from my narrow prejudice and reading Donald Richie’s”The Japan Journals”.There is a mentioning of Kerr that before he leave for Bangkok he visited Richie for a good-bye.And Richie showed Kerr a picture of all naked fisherman in Kujyuukuri in Chiba,Surprised with the picture,Kerr asked “When was this picture taken,certainly not after the war?”and Richie answered “That’s in the 50’s”.They both agreed that is Japan they would prefer to be,a third world.
The late Seidensticker kept on saying “Japan was more fitted in it’s poverty.I have nothing interested in the current Japan”.Same goes to Donald Keene.
My hypothesis is since they are all gay,that could have limited to their bondage with the society in a bit different way compare to us hetero-sexuals.I mean Richie is reffering many times about his age has affected his sexual attraction and he also worries about how much the money is left for his lasting life.Gay people’s life abroad means two things.You would get lonelier as the time goes by,because you don’t have any family here or have long lasting relationship with partner.
When you were young,you have somekind of connetion with what’s going on with the society via your lover or friend,but since such activities are now difficult,you have to retreat back to your own realm of interest,which is high culture.
Now in cases of heter-sexual,you may end up getting some families here and the younger member of the family will tell you all about what’s in and out.Just like my kid tells me about Pokemon and Naruto even if I don’t want to know all about it.
That’s my understanding of Kerr’s hikikomori to Machiya and pre-Meiji restoration days,but really I dunno what he actually think about current Japan.I even start to think he is not that harsh to Japan,compare to others that popped out in this century like Ziellenger,Ohnishi,Ardou et al.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:26 am
I got a day off today and that’s why while my colleagues are probably scrambling in the office for Abe resignation, I can write commentary on minor topic such as Macias Kerr debate…..
I side with Adamu.Kerr’s problem is mentioning(and judging)topics he really doesn’t know very well.
I was so furious when he wrote on Shiraishi Takashi(Kyodai’s director of South East Asian study)in a character assacination like manner in D&D.
The dude is basically an antique dealer,not much else.
This is strictly coming from my narrow prejudice and reading Donald Richie’s”The Japan Journals”.There is a mentioning of Kerr that before he leave for Bangkok he visited Richie for a good-bye.And Richie showed Kerr a picture of all naked fisherman in Kujyuukuri in Chiba,Surprised with the picture,Kerr asked “When was this picture taken,certainly not after the war?”and Richie answered “That’s in the 50’s”.They both agreed that is Japan they would prefer to be,a third world.
The late Seidensticker kept on saying “Japan was more fitted in it’s poverty.I have nothing interested in the current Japan”.Same goes to Donald Keene.
My hypothesis is since they are all gay,that could have limited to their bondage with the society in a bit different way compare to us hetero-sexuals.I mean Richie is reffering many times about his age has affected his sexual attraction and he also worries about how much the money is left for his lasting life.I would imagine the increase price of things and stronger yen are difinitely threatening his life plans.Gay people’s life abroad means two things.You would get lonelier as the time goes by,because you don’t have any family here or have long lasting relationship with partner.
When you were young,you have somekind of connetion with what’s going on with the society via your lover or friend,but since such activities are now difficult,you have to retreat back to your own realm of interest,which is high culture.
Now in cases of heter-sexual,you may end up getting some families here and the younger member of the family will tell you all about what’s in and out.Just like my kid tells me about Pokemon and Naruto even if I don’t want to know all about it
September 12th, 2007 at 12:35 am
I salute any comment that ties together homosexual expatriates, misguided respect for “pure poverty,” and Pokemon. Well played!
September 12th, 2007 at 1:01 am
So Kerr’s gay too? (I just read Aceface’s comment about the documentary) It’s intriguing to think that so much thought about Japan in English-speaking countries has been shaped by a League of Fabulous Gentlemen.
Sorry to go off-topic, but here’s a question for Aceface and anyone else: what’s your opinion of Ishiba Shigeru? I have to say I was impressed by the quiet eloquence of his anti-Abe reasoning in the aftermath of the election defeat, which led me to dig for more info about him (there can’t be many other military-otaku Christians in parliament). I doubt he’s going to emerge as a candidate to take over from Abe now, but I can’t help wondering what he’d be like in a more top-ranking position.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:02 am
Rather than wonder about the differences between Macias and Kerr, it might be more useful to consider what exactly a “Japan hand” is. For instance, a Japanese Beatrix Potter, Wagner or country music fan is rarely regarded as British, German or U.S. authority whereas Japanese businessmen who have been successful overseas are often asked to comment in the media on overseas affairs. Successful foreign businessmen working in Japan or for Japanese companies rarely seem to comment on Japan in the overseas media.
Does this imply that “Japan hand” means someone who comments publicly about Japan? That often seems to be the case although it’s worth noting that the internet has opened up the concept of “public”. Some of the discussions on blogs would, in days gone by, have been conducted in coffee shops and bars or by letter and email in private. Academic papers which would have seen little distribution are now often able in full on the web.
I agree with Don that it’s unlikely that Alex Kerr has much to say about the otaku world. It wouldn’t seem to be his area of interest, let alone his expertise, although it’s difficult to say how you would measure the latter for anyone. The cynic inside me wonders whether one definition of “Japan hand” might be someone who is prepared to comment publicly on any aspect of the country regardless of their own qualifications and experience. I’ll readily admit to having done that myself on occasion.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:24 am
Frauds and scoundrels, every one of them!
September 12th, 2007 at 2:31 am
I read about gay factor among the western asia hand in Ian Buruma’s “The Missionary and the libertine”.It’s definitley an area someone in a Japan study PhD course should explore in the future.
Ishiba Shigeru:
I know one veteran journalist who died last year didn’t like Ishiba as defense minister.”I can’t rest well thinking guy like Ishiba is in charge of our defense policy,this guy is a plastic model freak!He is no veteran nor has history in the service,just some military geek.”Although there are certain prejudice involved with the geekdom here,one must admit he is not exactly a pro compared to say Nakatani Gen.And his distance from Abe(who is the mainstream LDP politician)come fromt he fact that he once departed from the party in the 90’s,just like Kono was in the late 70’s.That can easily make him an armchair critic like status for his possibility of being real power broker with in the party is limited.
Mulboyne:
I totally agree about what you’ve wrote.Why are “they”(western media and the publisher)rejecting Japanese to represent themselves.That’s not always the case in say Russian,Chinese and Indians.Even the Palestineans do so in more frequent in English media than Japanese against the claim by the late Edward Said that Palestineans have no voice to be heard in American media.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:38 am
On Abe quitting: Ureshikute….. ureshikute…. kotoba ni….. dekinai…
The quote I was looking for:
Macias: People see a lot of misogyny, objectification of women, in a fantasy kind of way (in anime/manga)
Kerr: I don’t see that! (laughs)
Macias: I’m just quoting someone else, it’s not my own unique observation on this material.
Kerr: (pauses) If anything, though, I would say that the root lies in society’s treatment of women. And if it flowers in this form, I wouldn’t be angry at the flower. In other words if people are educated and we have a society in a certain way this is what you’re gonna get.
Maybe I am sensitive after the “birthing machine” statement but basically, I think the “flower” deserves more blame than Kerr assigns it and not this “why not let people have their kicks” kind of attitude. Yes I would like to hear the whole discussion as well.
More later!
September 12th, 2007 at 4:39 am
“Macias keeps a lot of cultural distance because he works on reaching an American audience.”
I’m not sure about this—Macias’ passion for and connection to something like “Galaxy Express 999” (something that I share) equals that of the first generation late 70s otaku. Kerr’s problem is that he seems to only see aspects of “traditional” Japan as positives and sees the present as overwhelmingly negative. Macias may be critical of some aspects of Japan, but he also sees creativity and aesthetic quality and sticks up for it. Selective criticism and praise is something that Kerr’s fantasy Japan (some farmers starved to death in those houses he likes so much) leaves little room for.
I also don’t think that Adamu is being unfair to Kerr—he sets himself up for it by writing dismissively about Japanese film and contemporary culture in “Dogs and Demons”.
I disagree with Macias on a few points relating to the North American Japanese pop market but for film, manga, etc. he seems to be all about honestly interrogating something that he connects with on the same level as Japanese fans. Kerr’s traditional houses, however, went from being simple living space for pre-modern Japanese to a bother for the modern majority (or something to transcend) to being something to photograph but never to live in. Kerr’s ethereal ideal old Japan has never had much cultural relevance for mainstream Japanese while Macias’ otaku-sphere really has. Miyazaki and Eva, etc. have become as mainstream as anything this side of Odoru Daisosasen.
I get the feeling that there are some foreigners who force themselves to learn “Go” or “Shogi” and ceaselessly tell everyone about it. Macias seems like the kind of guy who would play Mahjong or pachinko because he loves it.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:58 am
I see all the interesting people are here today
re: Kerr, I think he’s way out of touch with Japanese youth culture (or rather he never was in touch with that aspect of Japanese culture) and while I enjoyed D&D, I don’t expect pearls of wisdom from Kerr on this topic. If I am not mistaken, Kerr’s based in Thailand and only comes to Japan occasionally? Also, Kerr makes his living as an art dealer, certainly not as a Japan commentator.
re: Macias vs. Kerr on connecting with people, I think you’re looking at different audiences. Kerr has authority with segments that Macias does not and vice versa. I do think that Kerr’s “data points” are dated as he doesn’t live in Japan anymore and the Japan he romanticizes was gone a long time ago.
The Buruma commentary on Keene, Kerr, Richie, Seidensticker, etc. is def. worthy of further exploration.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:48 am
Well after Abe falls likely candidate for the next PM would be Aso Taroand I’m not too happy about that unlike Adamu(I even think Abe is better than him)But .I’m sure Macias can write something interesting about Aso’s strategy of using Japanese pop culture as diplomatic tools and mobilizing Akiba otakus as base suppoter.
As I trust what I saw in Jyounetsu Tairiku doc,Kerr now has renewed interest as tourism advisor and thinking about coming back to Japan(anyway he does spend at least half of the year here).
Buruma didn’t mention any particular names of above in M&L and it was me who connected them with his commentary,but I’m sure Buruma had them on his mind.
And these gay factor reminded me of Lafcadio Hearn(not gay)saying something like “Japanese life looked beautiful as fairy tale when I was looking at it as single man getting paid well in Tokyo University,but after getting married and having a family,tangled in the webs of social rituals and responsibilities,I feel like I become a caged animal”.
It is not exact of what he had said but something quite the same.
You can’t just seek your intellectual interest if you have family here.The cost of living will put you down in the level of the ordinaries from the high status of the expat.anyway that is what Hearn had thought.If you are gay then taht fate can be avoided and probably that is the reason why all the lifers are all homo sexual when Japan was in the “third world”stage,of which the generation of Macias(and most of you)do not have to face.
Some of you want to check out this week’s issue of Newsweek Japan.Featuring “The confession of Tokyo Correspondent”by Colin Joyce,the former correspondent from Daily Telegraph.Good read.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Well, Kerr pisses me off on general principles anyway, with his barely-contained fury that Kyoto, for example, is no longer a collection of cute wooden machiya. Hah. Dark, cold, and unhealthy, they were. Look wonderful, true, but there really is no reason why modern houses can’t be built to that aesthetic – and sometimes are. But I’m not sure why he was on something commenting about otaku and Akihabara anyway. Was he invited to comment? Nothing I have read of his (Dog-do and Demons, Lost Japan) gave me the impression he knew anything about them, other than to disparage them (like he does with the concrete rivers of Japan, thus revealing either ignorance or callousness about the serious and frequent flooding that happened before they were reined in). But his comment about ‘ritualised’ form and expression sets off Culture Vulture alarm bells big-time. It’s like everything has to be an extension of the tea ceremony ideals, or the formality of classical ikebana.
“Richie showed Kerr a picture of all naked fisherman in Kujyuukuri in Chiba,Surprised with the picture,Kerr asked “When was this picture taken,certainly not after the war?”and Richie answered “That’s in the 50’s”.They both agreed that is Japan they would prefer to be,a third world.” When I read that, I laughed and my first thought was “no, the Japan they preferred was the one filled with naked men,” [as a heterosexual guy, I should perhaps put in a word for the traditional topless pearl/shellfish divers, all female, here…] and was much pleased to see Aceface went on to talk about that. The purity and nobility of poverty is nothing new (though remarkably few poor people champion it, oddly enough), and even in Japan of course there’s a ton of nostalgia for those simple but pure days of the Showa 30s (“Always” and its sequel being two famous recent examples), a feeling of having lost something.
What is a Japan Hand? Something at the end of Japan Arms? Frankly, I think it depends on the audience. Compared to most Westerners, I could talk knowledgeably about pretty much any aspect of Japan. But in a specialist environment, I’d fall down flat in many areas. I think the term “Japan Hand” is a generalist, slightly amateur expression (cf “Japan Specialist” or even more so, “Anime Specialist” or whatever) – and ‘old hand’ at Japan who knows the ins and outs but maybe doesn’t know everything in great detail. In that, I’d place Kerr and Macias as Japan Hands, definitely, along with probably every commentator on this blog. But when out of our depth, we should indeed acknowledge it.
Hearn married in Matsue, I thought – his wife was certainly from there. I know he was most annoyed at, after gaining citizenship (to protect his wife’s assets as much as anything) to have his salary reduced from Expat Gaijin to Japanese. And since leaving the countryside and living in Tokyo, he became more and more cynical about Japan and its modernisation and daily life as well. But regariding the gay thing, their comfort in Japan is more likely to be their alienation from their own more gay-repressed countries, and since they’re aliens in Japan anyway, they don’t feel that different. And some deliberately avoid getting too close anyway – Richie saying how he didn’t want to learn to read Japanese as that would spoil the magic or some such rubbish, claiming Japanese cinema could be better understood if you didn’t understand a word they were saying….
Regarding the Flower thing, from that quote I tend to agree with Kerr. He’s saying, I believe, don’t blame manga for objectifying women in a society that encourages that. He seems to say you need to correct the society first. Of course he may be wrong about that – correcting the manga may be what is needed to correct the society – but it doesn’t seem like a very outrageous statement. Certainly not “whelping machines”-level.
As for Abe, my Japan Handedness collapses with contemporary politics – or rather, it goes up to hide a large yawn – so I shall leave commentary on that to JH’s who actually both know and care….
September 12th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Is the smart money on Aso? Manga-related stocks jumped at the news Abe was stepping down… Mandarake apparently jumped double digits…
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0912/TKY200709120357.html
September 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Actually Aso’s road to the next PM may not be so easy as I speculated,for he may be blamed for the defeat at the last election.Perhaps Machimura or Tanigaki?
About sexploitation manga thing.Don’t forget “Boy’s love”genre that thousand of 腐女子types consume at Akihabara. Consider that I say the mangas have their own lives and not entirely connected with the status of women.Because at least some kind of gender equality exist in that particular practice.Did also I not mention once here that there are almost as many female manga artists exist in Japan as the male counterparts?This is pretty rare case and can not be seen in other field.
On writers who wrote books on Japan that had influenced the western vision on the counry:
Ruth Benedict:Solely written “the Chrysanthemum and the sword” without any field work but by reading reports and interrogation records of Japanese POW.
Karel Van Wolfren:wrote “The Enigma of Japanese Power” in English.Resident of Japan for 40 years and still can not speak or read Japanese fluently.The highest educatuon record is high school graduation in The Netherland.
Michael Crighton:No Japanese language ability.Visited Japan only for book promotion tour.Wrote “Rising Sun”.
Iris Chang:Never been to Japan in her entire life.Neither speak nor read any Japanese and wrote “The Rape of Nanjing”.Has mental problem and commit suicide by blowing her head by a shotgun.
Ivan P Hall:Speak and read Japanese.Had only wrote one book on Mori Arinori,the first minister of education of Japan (of which was also his doctoral thesis) in early 60’s.Have written no books nor any academic thesis for the next 30 years until he got fired by two Japanese university(Gakusyuin,Tsukuba)after 9years of working there and suddenly become very prolific writer.Wrote”The Cartel of Mind”and “Bamboozled” in just 5 years.
Consider that Alex Kerr’s carreer isn’t so bad.He may be an antique dealer,but he CAN read and speak Japanese and do live in Japan.
I also wrote a comment in Marxy’s Neojaponism(Great read by the way)on the tendency of Japan expert chose to represent themselves as pundit of some other expertise in a usual ranting style.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Still no post on Abe’s resignation 12 hours after the fact?? For shame.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
You convinced me Curzon. Head for the latest post if you want to talk about this whole political situation.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
I know it’s not easy, but we need to distinguiah somewhat between nonfiction and fiction in talking about influences. That is, fiction – while ideally based in fact – has no obligation to be true. Nonfiction does.
Benedict also did a lot of (semi) field work by talking to Japanese in America. It was tricky to go to Japan when she wrote the book….
Did not realise Van Wolfie was so bad – thanks, Aceface: Despite living in Japan for 38 years, “Van Wolferen cannot read or write Japanese and is not even fluent in spoken Japanese.” (Wikipedia). Wow, is he another of those that think that actually understanding what is going on around them will somehow corrupt their ‘pure’ outsider understanding? However I wouldn’t hold his lack of a university degree against him. Bill Gates manages just fine without one, for example.
Hmmm. The ‘Alex Kerr’ article on Wikipedia looks as if it was written entirely by Kerr himself. I see in the ‘History’ section that someone had a bit of fun though: “Through his experiences in Japan, as related in his books, he has also become an avid art collector, and patron of Japan’s traditional theatre and master of homosexual erotic arts. A good friend of the famous kabuki actor Bandō Tamasaburō V, Kerr was introduced to the kabuki master’s staff from a perspective, and with an anal depth, which few foreigners have experienced. He frequently writes and lectures in Japanese, and is associated with the Oomoto Foundation, a Shintō organisation devoted to the practice and teaching of traditional Japanese buggery.”
September 12th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Nice find on the vandalized Wikipedia entry. I love that even crap like this gets fully archived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alex_Kerr&oldid=122974514
I particularly like this line, from another old version:
“Alex Kerr should not be confused with Alex Kerr, the lion trainer for Bertam Mills Circus.”
No, I suppose he shouldn’t.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Hall’s “Cartels of the Mind” is kind of boring.
I just read Buruma’s Missionary and the Libertine and I highly recommend it. (I found it for 50% off at a bookstore closing, but totally worth the half-price!) Funny that Buruma is one of Momus’ favorite Japan writers and yet he has a whole chapter denouncing “Neo-Orientalists” who believe in an essentialist Asian culture. BTW, how much Japanese does Buruma speak/read?
September 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Van Wolferen’s book is actually quite valuable for forwarding the idea that power in Japan is in the hands of a number of centers, which often work cooperatively, rather than in one center. It goes off the rails when he tries to tie this idea to some sinister plan behind it all.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:33 am
“Benedict also did a lot of (semi) field work by talking to Japanese in America. It was tricky to go to Japan when she wrote the book….”
I know.But that’s like writing a book about Islam or Arabs based on the interrogation record of the prisoners in Gitmo.No?I mean you may know pretty well about Al Queda mindset but if Bernard Lewis write a book on Islam mind like that he would be ripped into pieces.
Van Wolfren:
I have to agree with what two of you had said.I too am Wolfren groopie back in the day.But since he wrote more than ten books on Japan,somebody should point out his lack of linguistic fluency.and his academic record,I think the comparison with Bill Gates do not stands,for Gates did go to Stanford and as I trust what’s been written in Steven Levi’s”Hackers”,the high edge of the computer science at the time was read by the students and post-docs,not professors.So there was nobody that could teach Gates in any high educational institution in the world,But on the contrary,Van Wolfren could catch something from either Japan studiy courses in Leiden Univ(the oldest in Europe)or Japanese university.One of his first job in Japan was english teacher at Waseda and he is now the professor of Univ,of Amsterdam,he must’ve known the importance of higher education in some way.
On Michael Crighton:
Yes what he erites is fiction.But it is a sort of science fiction in a very classic sense like H.G Well and Jules Verne,the technology illustrated in the book either exist or thought to be improved as such in the near future and using such style of fantasy as story vehicle of portraying the coming reality.In that sense,the reader acually took some of the info on Japan in”Rising Sun”at face value.Anyway I remember Chalmers Johnson had mentioned on one occasion that “It changed social atomosphere with in the American society that benefited to circulate our view on Japan”.Which is revisionism,ofcourse.And it is included in the “must read”section of the book list of Japan Policy Research Institute(aka:Japan Poking Research institute)for quite some time.So it should not be treat it as a pure fiction as we should not with”Mein Kanpf”.
Ivan P.Hall:
He was a single man when he taught briefly at Keio back in the late 80’s.He now resides in Chieng Mai,Thailand(where else).Could be another case to strengthen my hypothesis?
September 13th, 2007 at 1:54 am
I am glad to see that people are still coming back to comment despite the long dry spell.
Funny thing about many of those books – they were even more popular in Japan than they were in the US. I remember reading that Kerr and Wolferen (at least Kerr for sure) were heartened by the reception their books have received, presumably because they felt like their audience needed to hear the message about their broken country.
But I guess the real issue here is that those books are very influential on people like us who take a close look at the country, and if people like that are our guides maybe we’re in trouble.
Thinking back, reading Enigma has proven to be more confusing than helpful. Maybe I just have the benefit of hindsight, but the decentralized centralization of “competing ministries” governance in Japan isn’t THAT hard of a concept to swallow and could have been explained a little less angrily.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:50 am
I wouldn’t overdo the Japan/gay white man angle. There have always been a large number of heterosexual men engaging with the local population, as it were, and making their mark in Japan going back to people like Thomas Glover in the late nineteenth century. The postwar period may have been something of an anomaly in that it might not have presented a wonderful environment to bring up mixed race children and so encouraged couples to leave. Financially, Japan wasn’t that much of a challenge for a white man with a family well up to the Olympics and there are plenty of people who did stay on – the five girls who made up the band “Golden Half” in the late 60’s all came from such relationships.
The evidence is skewed by the fact that the gents mentioned above are all men of letters. Restaurant and bar owners like Charlie Manos, Johnny Wetzstein and Nick Zappetti didn’t put pen to paper much. Nor did businessmen like Michael Kogan or Valentine Morozoff. Donald Richie has good contacts in the film business but there was no-one better connected in the 50’s and 60’s than Steve Parker. He was married to Shirley Maclaine but lived apart from her in Tokyo and raised their daughter in the city, eventually marrying his partner Miki after agreeing a divorce
Here’s Time magazine’s 1959 review of the wildly successful Vegas show he produced:
“’Holiday in Japan’ (at the New Frontier) is an Oriental variety show imported by Steve Parker, travel-happy husband of Cinemactress Shirley MacLaine. Ballad-belting M.C. James Shigeta imitates Elvis Presley with accurate Occidental accent, Belly Dancer Rie Taniuchi (34-21-35) oscillates through a Latin American cha cha cha, and the Nagata Kings pantomime a superb slapstick parody of baseball. What was missing from the start, by Vegas standards, was a satisfactory supply of nudes. But by week’s end a number called Kyoto Doll was turning nightly into a rousing scene of near rape and samurai swordplay. Naturally, before the fight ends, all the girls get their kimonos ripped off.”
September 13th, 2007 at 6:04 am
“I am glad to see that people are still coming back to comment despite the long dry spell.”
We still lurk. We only post when you do “one of those” entries that gets everyone a bit fired up.
As for the gay thing – I agree that we should not make too much out of it. Of the well connected “introduction people” (like Richie kinda “introduced” film) there is also Frederick Schodt (Manga! Manga!) who lived in Japan for ages and “discovered” manga. Also, do we know that Keene is gay, or are we just assuming?
September 13th, 2007 at 11:51 am
“But I guess the real issue here is that those books are very influential on people like us who take a close look at the country, and if people like that are our guides maybe we’re in trouble.”
That’s why foreign Japan reporting such as seen in the ones like NYT’s”Bomb by bomb,Japan shed Military Restraints” or the those in WaPo like “Sushi police”or “Rise of the Japanese thought police”can pass free. Thanks to the effort of Chalmers Johnson and James Fallows almost 20 years ago.They are the ones partly in responsible of this journalistic “perfect storm”.
“Also, do we know that Keene is gay, or are we just assuming?”
I thought he was.Anyway he is a single man until this age,No?Anyway his source of inspiration and the original translator of “The Tale of Genji”,Bloomsberry member Arthur Wailey was a gay.That may thrives my hypothesis of Japanophile men of letters consist extraordinary portion of gay men.No?
and howabout ex-Oomoto Foundation advisor before Kerr and his mentor,David Kidd who died of AIDS in Honolulu in 96.
http://www.davidkiddfoundation.org/pages/1/index.htm
“there was no-one better connected in the 50’s and 60’s than Steve Parker. He was married to Shirley Maclaine but lived apart from her in Tokyo”
OK,That explains why her 1962 film”My Geisha”
http://www.amazon.co.jp/My-Geisha-Shirley-MacLaine/dp/images/630210131X”;
is more acculate in wearing Kimono than “The Memoir of Geisha”.
September 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
My point about university was that it isn’t required to have a higher degree to know about a subject. Useful, perhaps, but I would try not to judge someone’s merits to talk about Japan, say, on whether they had a PhD in a Japan-related field or not.
I think the gay thing is notable as it was the ‘Introducers and Interpreters’ of Japanese culture (film, lit) that had a number of gay men, and their work reached a larger audience overseas than, say, businessmen. But yeah, it’s not a huge issue, just an interesting side note.
Do any of the film buffs here know a good site, in Japanese or English, that discusses the errors of ‘Sayuri’ and other similar films?
September 14th, 2007 at 12:09 am
As far as introducers and interpreters go, it’s easy to forget the popular impact of James Michener’s “Sayonara” (1954) together with the Marlon Brando film three years later for which Miyoshi Umeki (who recently passed away) became the first Asian winner of an Oscar. The James Bond book “You Only Live Twice” was published in 1964 and the film released three years later. Author Ian Fleming was the grandson of Scottish banker Robert Fleming who developed extensive interests in Asia. Family members gave him much of the detail on Japan which turns up in that book. James Clavell’s “Shogun” was also a popular success in the 70’s and even more so with the 1980 TV miniseries. I’d wager those three works alone kindled the interest of a good number of people who then went on to find the work of Seidensticker, Richie and Keene among others.
Religion and martial arts tend to get lost in the mix when we talk about introducers and interpreters. Robert Pirsig’s “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” was a huge bestseller on its release in 1974. Judo and karate became popular overseas once US servicemen discovered them during the Occupation. General Curtis “Bombs Away” LeMay, assistant to MacArthur, made practicing judo a routine part of Air Force tours of duty in Japan and Dutchman Anton Geesink’s judo gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics was groundbreaking in establishing the sport internationally.
September 14th, 2007 at 3:20 am
Marxy:
On the linguistic ability of Buruma,we had discussion at AMPONTAN’s blog in July.
Garrett of Trans Pacific Radio said
“On another note, I’m kind of with Tomojiro on Buruma, but I have a question: How much Japanese does Buruma actually read or understand?
An acquaintance of mine, who’s a freelance cameraman, was hired to help shoot a documentary in which Buruma was interviewed. This guy said that Buruma insisted on being interviewed only in English, didn’t seem to understand what was said to him in Japanese, and got angry when the reporter asked him a question in Japanese.
I wasn’t there and have never met Buruma, so I don’t know how much truth there is to it, but it would be kind of a damning anecdote for an historian studying Japan.”
And Tomojiro said:
“I had an occasion to speak with a Japanese woman who is working as trasnlator. She told me exactly the same thing. Buruma insited that all the conversation(meetings included) should be conducted in English.
She said when she and other Japanese staff used Japanese then Buruma got quite angry.
She said that Buruma and Wolfren both couldn’t speak Japanese well.”
September 14th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Buruma’s work certainly suggests that he does not speak Japanese well or at all. The overwhelming majority of the film and literary sources that he uses in his writing have been translated into English at some point.
Plus, Buruma is not really a “historian” as he does not engage in any scholarly debates. He is more interested in writing Japan vignettes (nothing wrong with it, and it is his niche).
I don’t really understand this “live in Japan for 30 years as a Japan “expert” and yet learn next to no Japanese” mentality. I mean, if you really love Japan you’d want to learn Japanese to vastly increase the perspectives that you have access to. If you really hate Japan, you’d want to learn Japanese to get at the real dirt. If you don’t learn Japanese despite positioning yourself as a Japan expert, you really seem like more of a fence sitter and a self promoter. What kind of Japan expert (or even social creature) could Buruma really be is he gets PISSED that the subjects of his 30 years of writing speak in their native language in his presence.
In any case, it must really rot these guys when they are out in the world and come across a two year JET who speaks as much Japanese as they do….
September 14th, 2007 at 9:46 am
“a two year JET who speaks as much Japanese as they do”
Now that’s a low blow….
I don’t understand it either, but reading about Richie and Japanese cinema, maybe they just never needed to – their words were treated as pearls of wisdom by the naive and Orientalising ‘West’ at just the right time, so they coasted – bit like Uri Geller and his spoon-bending: no new tricks need to be added, as the old ones, hyped up, sell perfectly well.
Maybe he was pissed off at the Japanese making fun of his last name, and wondering about his predilections for high-school girls in phys-ed outfits…? Anyway, Buruma speaks Burumese, I guess….
September 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Not that low – I’ve met some 2 year JETs who can actually get by pretty well in Japanese. Really encouraging, actually.
In any case, I think that Richie SPEAKS Japanese fluently, just chose to not learn to read it (which is a shame, and he comes off as an elitist by arguing that Japanese should be reading Proust anyway, so obviously their language hardly counts). Buruma, however, kinda seems like he sticks to Burumese.
September 15th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Even though I posted negative testimony against Buruma’s linguistic ability,I actually like his writing and I believe he can speak Japanese in certain level,for not only he has Japanese wife,but he studied in Nihon Univ facutly of art and joined theater company of Terayama shuji for a while.and some of the stuff he used for writing “The Japanese mirror” is not being translated in English.
“Anyway, Buruma speaks Burumese, I guess….”
No,and that pun doesn’t work in Japanese because the country Buruma is ビルマ and Buruma isブルマ.Here’s better one ブルマ means bloomers.
Now there’s some nice burumas here.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=beLLxvMfKOI
September 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
“Here’s better one ブルマ means bloomers.” – Yeah, I noted that when I mentioned his possible “predilections for high-school girls in phys-ed outfits” – and who can blame him…?
September 16th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
There’s no reason to get hung up about someone’s fluency or otherwise unless what they are saying is ridiculous and that misunderstanding can be traced to their lack of language skills. There are a lot of competent linguists who don’t have a lot to say about Japan but if a kanji-challenged, keigo-deficient foreigner has formed relationships with some of the leading Japanese lights in a particular field then there’s a fair chance he or she will have something worth saying about it.
One problem that does seem to crop up from time to time is when a foreign commentator puts forward a thesis which he/she claims is new, or is hailed as new by people who’ve never heard it before, when it is actually a rehash of a debate which has been conducted exclusively in Japanese. Another bugbear is reading a comment such as “the Japanese never discuss this” or “you’ll never see this in the Japanese press” in relation to an issue which does in fact get discussed.
The fluency issue isn’t irrelevant but it can be a dead end. You end up wondering what fluency means and coming up with something like Jack Seward’s definition which would probably fail a good few native Japanese too:
http://www.weekender.co.jp/LatestEdition/980515/coverstory.html
September 16th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
“...actually a rehash of a debate which has been conducted exclusively in Japanese.”
Exactly. Which is why some degree of fluency, and by extension degree of familiarity with the debates in Japan on the subject, is a good indicator. No, it’s not the be-all and end-all, but it does allow more flexibility and freedom – even this guy with high connections is then able to look into counter-claims and the like.
Interesting test ideas:
1. When using a Japanese name and speaking to a stranger on the telephone, he or she should be able to pass for a Japanese—or come close to it.—>This has happened to me, and I know of other people as well.
2. Know all or almost all of the 1,875 (?) Toyo Kanji with the on and kun readings and at least a couple of the compounds.—>If by ‘know’ he means ‘able to write’ then many young Japanese would fail as well. I did know how to write them all at one stage, but tend to forget the less common ones, and remember non-Joyo that I use often.
3. Be able to read a letter written in gyosho. (I won’t hold out for sosho.)—> This would be tricky simply as written Japanese standards are slipping rather – people go to classes to learn how to write in gyosho etc, and kuzushi-ji tend to be more random than they are in, say, Edo-period documents.
4. Be able to understand all or almost all of a newscast, if the subject matter is not impossibly technical.—> This is probably a fairly easy hurdle, as newscasts are not made overly hard anyway.
5. Be able to read a newspaper or magazine article with only very occasional reference to a kanji dictionary.—> This really depends on the level of magazine, but should not be too high a hurdle.
6. Write a decent letter in kaisho Japanese.—> Seward seems certain of not just the ability to write Japanese, but hand-write it in a given style, as being indicative of ‘fluent’. Judging from Japanese handwriting I have seen, this would be difficult for many Japanese…. In fact, I’ve noticed that modern Japanese handwriting among the young (students etc) is very UNLIKE the smooth regular flow of calligraphy, and tends towards strong, clearly individual, strokes.
7. Give a ten-minute impromptu talk in comprehensible and correct Japanese an every-day topic requested by your audience.—> This is a good trial, I think. I remember having to do things like this a few years after I started learning, and it was very far from easy.
8. Carry on a torrid love affair in words that will enable you to win the heart of your intended, who must speak no English.—> My wife can’t speak any English at all – does that mean I pass?
9. Identify (even if you cannot completely understand) three rural dialects.—> This could be tricky. I could have a go at Tohoku and Kyushu (Kagoshima etc) dialects. Does Kansai-ben count as “rural”? If not, then I wouldn’t do well at this….
10. Stroll through your shopping district and read the first 20 signs you see in Japanese.—> Well, assuming allowances for alternative readings of names that some places like, this should be one of the easier ones to pass.
However in general I tend to agree with the idea that “fluent” means smooth and at a good pace – it doesn’t necessarily mean “good”, though we have that impression as someone who isn’t good often needs to fish around for words. And let’s not forget that a favourite way to improve fluency has always been generous ingestion of medicinal substances such as Kirin, Asahi, and Suntory….
September 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
On the issue of fluency—
Let’s say that you were a Japanese who speaks no English. Let’s say that you were called upon to (or felt like) comment(ing) on the American discourse on terrorism…. I would argue that anything coming from this person would be very, very, very limited if they relied only on things translated into Japanese. That’s the name of the game. What could they come up? Some quotes from “Stupid White Men”? Meanwhile, a commentator who can go through the last 5 years of “The New Yorker”, House of Congress records, etc… Well, I think that there is a big difference.
“Another bugbear is reading a comment such as “the Japanese never discuss this” or “you’ll never see this in the Japanese press” in relation to an issue which does in fact get discussed.”
This is my ultimate pet peeve. It happens A LOT.
“Stroll through your shopping district and read the first 20 signs you see in Japanese”
Ouch. Pretty silly one. What if there is a shop called 倶楽部夜露死苦 or something? Not hard if you get it but this kind of BS is by no means rare. I saw a bar called 鼎 and a Janso called 麻雀軍鶏 in one day—meaning that I’m apparently not fluent. Trying to read the names of small JR stations can also be fun, especially if you end up in 尻毛.
September 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
I keep wanting to read 倶楽部夜露死苦 as “Club YAroshiku”....
鼎 is a Shang-dynasty cooking pot (‘Ding’ in Chinese, ‘tei’ in Japanese) but the only reason I know that is a recent visit to the Shanghai National Museum, which is shaped [sort of] like one – it’s certainly not at all common in Japanese. Its only uses in Japanese, aside from as a proper noun, seem to be as kanae, tripod, which is probably the reading in this case, 鼎談, three-way conversation, and 鼎立, three people (or groups) talking facing each other. The latter could be used a bit in political discussions, however. My dictionary also suggests it can be read ‘masa ni’ although MS Word Japan doesn’t show it, or ataru.
Had to look up 軍鶏 – it’s “gamecock” apparently, not “army chicken”.... So how often do we use “gamecock” in English?
Of course any true test requires a control, so in order to judge the Seward Fluency Test, we would first need to run it with a selected group of random Japanese. Foreigner scores would be rated against the Japanese scores, rather than against getting everything 100% right.
September 16th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
It’s not that difficult to think of Japanese who struggle with spoken English but have great reading comprehension. There was an interview not so long ago with literary professor Mizuhito Kanehara, father of author Hitomi, who has translated, among many others, Vonnegut, Kipling and Hemingway while also writing about Eugene O’Neill. He says he mostly conducts press interviews in Japanese and corresponds with authors by email because his speaking and skills lag behind what he wants to express. He is probably being modest but it wouldn’t be a surprise if he hadn’t developed fluency in that area.
September 16th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
When I say fluency in the context of this discussion, I mean reading and speaking. If you read Japanese but speak it poorly, I think that you can still produce some excellent analysis on literature or any number of subjects really. If you speak, but don’t read, it gets a bit harder to make the kinds of contributions that academics value. If you don’t speak and don’t read, you are pretty much going to be locked into A – the body of sources translated into English, B – whatever English-speaking Japanese will tell you, C – Personal experience (which makes for great anecdotes). The amount of quality Japan-interpretation (any sphere of Japanese society) by people with no language skills is really close to nil. The Journal of Japanese Studies pretty much declares on its website that they throw submissions with no Japanese sources straight into the trash. I don’t think that it is an indication of an old boy’s club or anything, just the cruel truth of limited access to sources limiting understanding. Not a Japan thing either – has anything insightful about ancient Greece been written / said by someone with no knowledge of ancient Greek?
I’m very much open to other people’s opinions on this, however. Anyone out there think that the language barrier is not much a barrier to insight in any particular area?
September 17th, 2007 at 12:12 am
I recall one work by an Israeli (?) prof that was a large chunky and reasonably hard-core tome (much more so than say Buruma’s ‘Inventing Japan’) on Japanese studies/history and was compiled entirely from secondary English sources, said prof’s aim not being so much to explore new areas of history as the way it was written or something – been some years since I read it myself. Just try to find it…. Ah, this is it: SN Einsenstadt’s “Japanese Civilisation – A Comparative View”, Uni Chicago Press, 1996. That’s probably one of the more serious works on Japan by someone who doesn’t know the language. Then there are cases like how Japan is treated in even more general World History stuff, such as Arnold Toynbee. It’s not a priori impossible, but generally tends to a metanarrative approach or whatever.
Oh, and if you want insights into Ancient Greece by people who know nothing of the language, just watch “Xena the Cleavage Princess.” For a start, I learned that Maoris originally came from Greece, and that Greeks didn’t actually use Greek architecture. Also, those so-called ‘historians’ who thought that Troy (the horse one) and Caesar were separated by centuries clearly were talking out their arse….
September 17th, 2007 at 2:26 am
“Had to look up 軍鶏 – it’s “gamecock” apparently, not “army chicken”.... So how often do we use “gamecock” in English?”
It’s pronouneced as “Shyamo”シャモ and one of the breed of chicken.Not only consumed as the fighter of the cock fights,but also with Yakitori and Mizutaki水炊き especally in Northern Kyusyu region.Yummy!
“It’s not that difficult to think of Japanese who struggle with spoken English but have great reading comprehension.”
I was reading a book from Tokiwa Shimpei 常盤新平a writer and tranlator specially know for the introduction of short stories that appeared in “The New Yorker” magazine.
Ｉｎ ｈｉｓ ｂｏｏｋ ”ニューヨークの古本屋,The second hand books shops of New York”,he writes about when he visited the editorial office of “The New Yorker”to meet the legenadary editorial chief of the magazine,William Shawn.Although Tokiwa was very willing to see Shawn for he has been lifelong reader of the magazine,he was very reluctant to meet his literary hero,for Tokiwa can not speak English fluently.So the actual meetings had been conducted with a translator,his wife.
I agree about the Japanese fluency is not the only thing we should be concerned about “Understanding Japan”.But my feeling is there are so much influx of “traveluogue”type of Japan writing.While I myself is very fond of the genre,and well known that sometimes foreigner’s first impression catches well of the shape of the matter than the locals who are entangled with the tiny factual details.But still,these travelogue genres rarely get the criticism from the Japanese in English media,thus the writers become almost too much daring somtimes.And lack of direct translations of Japanese materials in English is also a problem,because that usually make these book by the problem,because that usually make these book by the foreigners can easily become the classic of Japan narratives.
Sometimes that bring comical tragedy upon Japanese life.There was one occasion when Tokyo school had invited the Dutch veterans for somekind of reconciliation tours.Although the teachers were well known about the Japanese wrong doings in the Dutch East Indies,they either haven’t read Buruma’s “The Wages of Guilt” nor it’s existence.The dutches went furious and condemned it as the evidence of Japanese”lack of historical knowledge”.
September 17th, 2007 at 2:37 am
Come to think of it, I would have seen ‘shamo’ in menus – yakitori, as Aceface notes – but never to my knowledge in kanji. Those kanji that are read in totally insane ways can be really tricky.
September 17th, 2007 at 5:26 am
There’s no real mileage in maintaining that it is somehow better not to have fluency or that there is no need to learn the language but it seems unnecessary to dismiss anything said or written by someone just because they haven’t got that proficiency. It really depends what perspective you bring. Alan Greenspan writes about China in his new book but it’s unlikely anyone will pull him up for not reading the literature. Jim Press probably has some interesting observations about Toyota after working for the company for 37 years while Bobby Valentine surely knows a thing or two about baseball in Japan. Certainly, alarm bells ought to go off if they go on to generalize about the country from that experience alone but, if the individual is thoughtful, they may yet draw a decent conclusion. It is possible for someone to have a good insight without necessarily backing it up with evidence that would satisfy an academic: not all ideas originate with academic rigour.
It may seem difficult to imagine how anyone could comment authoritatively on a nation without having the language but put your mind back to the cold war era and you’ll find a host of people writing about the Soviet Union without any Russian skills. Whether they were accurate or not in their assessments was not really related to their language ability. Condoleezza Rice came to prominence as a Soviet hand but you’ll hear mixed reports about her real fluency.
Most of what I learn of value about Japan comes from Japanese sources or from work which is derived from such sources but an outside perspective can sometimes help, especially when it comes to understanding what might cause long term trends to change. For instance, who in Japan really believed that Starbucks could succeed by providing premium-priced coffee in shops with a strict no-smoking policy during a period of deflation? I’ve now read a number of studies explaining the social and economic context for their success after the fact but all the advice the company received before opening urged them to reconsider their business model.
September 17th, 2007 at 8:20 am
“they may yet draw a decent conclusion.”
“May” draw. But has anyone?
The non-speaking Russia hands that you described are now being blamed for totally missing the stresses in Russian society (particularly the economy and potential to keep up with the USA in an arms race) and for prolonging the Cold War for 20 years….
I’ve heard that Bobby Valentine speaks Japanese pretty well but chooses not to on TV to sell the “American-ness” (which sounds like a good strategy).
September 17th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Forget what you’ve heard, Bobby’s Japanese isn’t all that hot but that doesn’t stop him from hawking Japanese language texts with his name on them. This is probably the biggest expose of MF’s entire existence, so I think regular readers should be aware.
But still speaking Japanese seems to matter little in the sports world, so this should not be a way to judge foreign coaches – they just need to lead teams and win games.
September 17th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
“Forget what you’ve heard, Bobby’s Japanese”
Yeah, serves me right for trusting Sports Illustrated. They were also making the point that Bobby returning to Japan really “gave legitimacy to Japanese baseball” not, oh, how awesome Ichiro is or anything….
September 17th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
M-bone commented ” ‘they may yet draw a decent conclusion.’ ‘May’ draw. But has anyone?”
Yes. Look outside the academic world a little more and you’ll find many such observations. I was at an auto industry conference when all Japanese commentators and Japan hands (save one) predicted failure for Carlos Ghosn at Nissan. The European analysts, however, who knew little about Japan specifically but had a better feel for industry trends, almost all predicted great things and they were right. At about the same time Japanese commentators began to fall in love with Ghosn as a miracle worker, overseas analysts were starting to doubt him and that has also proved correct to date.
If you’d asked anyone in Japan what the chances were of a foreigner taking over as Sony CEO a year before it happened, you’d have been given very long odds. Meanwhile, one ex-Sony foreign staffer, a linguistic non-starter, was briefing US private equity funds that Stringer was in pole position. It’s not that he wasn’t aware how big a step that would be in Japan, he just had a better idea of the dynamic in the company in which he had worked for so long.
Why try to explain away Bobby Valentine’s knowledge with the argument that his Japanese is better than we know? That reminds me of the moment in “Spartacus” when the pirate, played by Herbert Lom, tells Spartacus that the Romans believe he must be of noble birth because it makes them feel better to be defeated by a peer because they don’t want to face the truth that someone outside their realm has outdone them. The starting point should be that Valentine knows what he is talking about. The NY Times recently called him a “soothsayer” for predicting what would happen to Matsuzaka in the MLB if he threw too many fastballs and played more regularly than his Japan rotation.
On another issue, the recent stories about rising tuna prices in Japan have all reported it it as if it had came out of nowhere. You wouldn’t have been surprised if you’d seen the reports over the last three years about overfishing and declining stocks. Fish buyers overseas were amazed that prices in the country of the number one consumer weren’t rising as they had been elsewhere. I recall explaining to one guy how the deflationary environment meant that wholesalers had no pricing power. He told me straight that, if the demand was there, then they did have that power and if they didn’t exercise it then they would go bust. He then said that if they weren’t hurting then they must be cutting corners. Flash forward to the Meat Hope scandal, a different commodity, and I was struck by the comment by the president that Japanese consumers wanted a quality product but wouldn’t pay for it so he had closed the gap by fraudulent means.
My understanding of Japan is only as good as the predictions I can make about the country whether it be in political, social, cultural or business fields. The clearer idea I get about how certain trends developed, for which I am very grateful to the academic world for elucidating, the better chance I have of looking forward. If I had dismissed the evidence of others on the grounds that their language skills were insufficient rather than because of what they had to say then I would have been very badly compromised over the years. Almost as much as if I had just swallowed everything that the overseas press wanted me to believe about Japan over the same period.
(Incidentally, it is the Soviet-hands en masse who are blamed for missing the stresses in the Union during the Cold War, regardless of their language skills. The accusation being that, knowingly or unknowingly, they all played up the Soviet threat because their careers depended on it.)
September 17th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Companies like Nissan or Sony are now multi-nationals. In post-industrial societies, the same types of business practices tend to result in a lot of success in many cases. Bring an American heart surgeon to Japan and he is going to do just fine on Japanese hearts (intestine may be a different story, cough). People who know business may be able to do just fine in Japan, but ask them about how sports cars are being depicted in the press or if they have a feel for what the man on the street thinks about this or that and they will have no choice to regurgitate what their J-lingo fine subordinates tell them because they can’t get access to this data themselves.
“The starting point should be that Valentine knows what he is talking about.”
Once again, he can tell you lots about baseball, but he can’t tell you why Japanese kids get fired up about the koshien because he can’t talk to one, it seems. I can tell you why Konishiki won’t be running any marathons but that’s not a Japan insight, its a human insight. Anyone can offer human insights about Japan, but I think that you should think about it this way—how much insightful stuff is being said about your home society by non-English (or other language) speaking Japanese? The human insights may be there but the access to examples and counter-examples would not be.
“My understanding of Japan is only as good as the predictions I can make about the country whether it be in political, social, cultural or business fields.”
I guess this is where we disagree. I don’t think that predicting things is that important. If Valentine could do that regularly, for example, he could just live in Vegas, bet baseball, and he’d have a trillion dollars. You can’t do that, however. Just look at American football experts on TV, they are lucky if they pick at .500. One year I picked the results of TEN big boxing matches in a row. If I had bet 1000 in the beginning it would have snowballed to well over 200,000. Am I a boxing expert. Hell no. If you want to predict these types of things, you should listen to everyone, but I think that understanding is rooted more in access to more perspectives, and I have not really seen serious Japan understanding (apart from things that have transnational relevance like baseball or laying off a lot of people to restructure a company) from people without linguistic skills – they can inform you by talking about their own experience, but insightful commentary, which touches a variety of parts of Japanese society at its best and draws many, many diverse examples from areas as different as film and sports and politics and the state of public transportation is something different. As much as I HATE Dogs and Demons I must say that it got me fired up because it WAS that kind of diverse insight. I just thought that it was $^#@ing wrong in a lot of cases.
I agree with most of what you have said, we’re just working with different definitions of insight. I mean putting together enough different POVs to talk comprehensively about Japan in a certain period (not in the future). That are lots of things that you can do without language skills (knowing every stop on the Yamanote, for example) but they would not fit my definition of insight.
Big final example—don’t you think that if the Bush administration had had a few more Arabic fluent people with real insights into Iraqi society around them that…. things could have been different? There were Americans who knew something transnational – how to roll over the Iraqi army (while its a horrible comparison to make, I see Valentine and Ghosn as having a similar type of expertise, they can do something technical and make it work regardless of environment) – but insight was what was sorely needed.
September 17th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
“If you’d asked anyone in Japan what the chances were of a foreigner taking over as Sony CEO a year before it happened, you’d have been given very long odds. Meanwhile, one ex-Sony foreign staffer, a linguistic non-starter, was briefing US private equity funds that Stringer was in pole position. It’s not that he wasn’t aware how big a step that would be in Japan, he just had a better idea of the dynamic in the company in which he had worked for so long.”
Aside from the fact that ‘one’ seems rather low – this could just have been the one guy who was actually right (like all predictions, we tend to hear about and remember the ones that came true), the connection is not apparent. Did no Japanese-speaking employee make that call? How many non-Japanese speaking employees? Did this guy really know, or was it a lucky educated guess? That’s not made clear. That is, I see anecdotes, but no analysis. It’s possible a few experts in their field can make good calls when it comes to seeing how their field performs in Japan. But that does not mean we should trust non-J speakers (esp over J-speakers/experts) automatically. Given two people talking about a random Japan-related subject, my tendency would be assume the one who speaks the language has a better grasp on the issue. It’s not 100% infallible of course, and in the bigger areas like macroeconomics and ‘baseball’ and stuff greater knowledge of the speciality field might help, but if that knowledge is equal, then it seems logical that knowing Japanese can only enhance insight.
M-Bone. Re Iraq – no, probably not…. All the insight Bush needed was granted him by God (apparently) and the need to start a war with an easy enemy. Sure, looking at Palestinian suicide bombers MIGHT give most people the idea that Arabs CAN tend to be a little opposed to ‘foreign occupation’, but not to the Man with the Vision and the need to distract from the embarassing lack of Osama bin Laden in a prison cell.
I thought I saw Konishiki in the Hakone Ekiden, but it turned out to be a large hill….
September 17th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
OK,it seems we should conceptualize more clearly that there are two sub genres in the world of Japan hands.The Watcher and the Players.
TheWatchers are people who see thing in Japan and come up with some meanings and translate them for the benefit of understanding of the others who don’t get Japan.Authors Journalists and academics,the Japan hands M-Bone and I were keep criticizing.
Gohn/Valentine/Stringer,they are all “players” in their field.They don’t really need Japanese fluency not only because they can hire 24 hrs translator nor bilingual staffs but what put them into their position is their special skills and the knowledge in their expertise.Their ability is judged by how well they perform in Japan in their own field,not how much they get Japan.They are whom Mulboyne has been talking.
According to this classification,Douglas Macarthur can be said as a great player in handling Japanese matters both in times of war and peace,but not a great watcher,because his coneptualization of Japan,America’s vassal and kid brother,caused lots of misunderstangings and frustlation in both side of the Pacific.
“Those kanji that are read in totally insane ways can be really tricky.”
Jade:
軍鶏 can hardly be Shamo in either Kun or On yomi.Becuase the word Shamo is coming from the word Siam,because these gamecocks came from Thailand in the late Edo period.(which is Prince Akishinomiya’s expertise.That’s why he love going to Thailand whenever it’s possible)
I don’t know how many of you remember when I posted NYT’s Norimutsu Onishi’s article on why Japan-is-closed-and-insular-and-China
is -notarticle,becuase Japanese reject foreign term by writing them in Katakana to make it distinguishable.While I have no intention of tweeding one big cultural theory from this one word,it could be a tiny piece of evidence for the counterargument and necessity of linguistic fluency in Japan representation.September 18th, 2007 at 1:17 am
Ace – yes, I know there is no way of reading シャモ as 軍鶏 by normal rules – that was my point. But since 軍鶏 can be and is read as shamo, it’s a case of very serious ateji or something. Interesting about Siam though – did not know that. Makes sense. I remember reading the article you refer to, actually, and thinking it may have a point. However most kanji-fied foreign words like 煙草、硝子、瓦斯 etc arrived in Japan either in the Edo period (roughly) or very early Meiji. They are no longer written in ateji (tabako in particular is a clear example of finding appropriate kanji and then inventing the reading. As is, I would say, 大和-yamato). Placenames are another classic example and one that is still often used: 英米、豪州、などなど. It’s not an either-or rule, but then so few rules are.
Incidentally, in prewar government records and the like that are written in katakana as a matter of course (with kanji as well of course), foreign words are ‘under’lined (sidelined, to be accurate, the writing being vertical).
Signed, 玉蛸....?
September 18th, 2007 at 6:38 am
I don’t think anyone here really disagrees. I would, though, put forward a case for why prediction is important. Many times over the years, I’ve heard people say about Japan “X will never happen” or “The Japanese will never do X”. When X does subsequently happen or the X is actually done, the same person will often say “That’s irrelevant, nothing has fundamentally changed”. Even if their second statement is true, it would seem that X played a role in their understanding of Japan which is now no longer the case. That means to me that there was a problem with their original analysis which ought to be addressed rather than dismissed. In the worst case, something fundamental has indeed changed and the individual is just plain wrong and needs to reconsider.
Most people here would probably avoid making any such sweeping statements and leave themselves hostage to fortune but they are often made by both Japanese and foreign observers. In many cases, it is simply that the individual has an agenda: they don’t want or like X. Where I find the contribution of some non-Japan speciali