No flag burning please, we’re Japanese

Russia calls for probe into provocative actions of Japanese extremists

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on the Japanese authorities on Tuesday to prosecute Japanese radicals for desecrating a Russian flag during protests over a territorial dispute between the two countries.

Japanese ultra-right campaigners dragged the Russian flag along the ground outside the Russian Embassy in Tokyo on Monday amid the heating up of a diplomatic row between Russia and Japan over four islands off Russia’s Far Eastern coast, called the Northern Territories in Japan and the Kuril Islands in Russia.

“Not only did we protest, but we also asked the Japanese authorities to launch a criminal case over the desecration of the Russian flag,” Lavrov said. “We were told that in Japanese law there is an article that forbids the mockery of foreign state symbols.”

Correct, FM Lavrov! Article 92 of Japan’s Criminal Code is referred to as 外国国章損壊罪 (gaikoku kokusho sonkaizai), or “Foreign National Symbol Damage Crime”). Clause 1 reads: “A person who damages, destroys or sullies a country’s flag or other national symbol, with the intention of insulting that foreign country, shall be punished with up to two years imprisonment and a fine of up to JPY200,000.”

Importantly, this crime is a 親告罪 (shinkokuzai), and requires the formal request of the victim for the prosecutor to proceed. Clause 2 reads: “The crime in the previous clause shall require the request of the foreign government to be prosecuted.” So Russia’s statement is required for the prosecutors to act.

How many such cases have there been? Not surpringsly, very few.

* In July 1956, the Qing Imperial flag was destroyed at an Osaka demonstration. The Osaka Prosecutors ruled that as the flag was private property, the act was not subject to prosecution.
* In May 1958 in Nagasaki, a man desecrated a PRC flag and was fined JPY500 by the police. Both the ROC (the government of which Japan recognized as the government of China at that time) and the PRC (which Japan did not recognize) made formal complaints, and resulted in some commercial contracts between the two countries being terminated.
* After an October 1993 soccer game in Qatar when the opposing Iraqi team tied with a final goal that disqualified Japan from the final rounds (known as the “Doha Tragedy“), Japanese supporters tore down the Iraqi flag at the Iraqi Embassy in Tokyo. The Iraqi embassy response was that the reaction was a “natural expression of patriotism” and they asked that the flag be returned by mail.

Japan is unique in that it only prosecutes desecration of foreign national symbols. There has never been a law prohibiting or punishing the desecration of the Japanese national flag. One reason is that, when the Criminal Code was drafted in Meiji Japan, the Emperor was soveign, and crimes against the emperor were the crimes against the state. These provisions of the law were cancelled after World War II.

57 thoughts on “No flag burning please, we’re Japanese”

  1. The 1956 case also brings up the interesting point of whether the PRC or ROC would even have standing to claim that they were wronged by the burning of the national flag of the government that they overthrew and succeeded.

  2. “There has been a similar precedent in history. In 1855, using the fact that Russia was involved in the Crimean War, the Japanese pushed for a favorable agreement on the South Kuriles. Not wanting to conflict with Japan, Russia gave them four islands, which the Japanese are not willing to forget.”

    Seemingly Pravda chose to forget that the entire Kuril chains were handed over to Japan in return of entire Sakhalin in Treaty of St.Petersburg in 1875,almost 20 years after the Crimean war.

    It tells you more about how reliable the Russians can be over the fruit of diplomatic negotiations.

  3. Ace: I was going to mention that very passage for a different reason. In that article and across much of Russian public talk as far as I can see, there is a strange mix of superiority complex and victim complex – In 1855 Japan was just so badass that they bullied the poor Russian people into giving up the islands!

  4. “there is a strange mix of superiority complex and victim complex ”

    Notice that when I read “Voice Of Russia”reported Putin Youth surrounding Japanese embassy decided to hand over Russian map and history textbook to ambassador,for Kan clearly doesn’t understand history.

    What Russian side seems to forget is they had taken more than a million Japanese from various part of Soviet occupied territories including the Kurils and all Japan got was something like an apology from Boris Yeltsin back in 1993 during press conference.Hardly formal and it popped out right after Yeltsin dissed Japan over territorial disputes.And we accepted this “undiplomatic manner” and we paid the compensation to the ex-POW for there’s no chance Moscow would pay.

    One thing is right about Pravda article.Post-war Japanese diplomacy has now officially bankrupt.Japan needs it’s own arm to protect it’s terrotory and interest.

  5. “Hardly formal and it popped out right after Yeltsin dissed Japan over territorial disputes.”

    And I’ll bet he was drunk at the time.

    Let’s face it, Russia isn’t apologizing for anything – not for the planned starving millions to death in Ukraine, not for killing 100,000 Japanese after the war ended, nope.

    “Japan needs it’s own arm to protect it’s terrotory and interest.”

    As far as I can tell, even after the recent rows, the Japanese public isn’t even close to going for something like this (the latest “don’t touch article 9” poll that I have seen is from May of last year at 67%, would be interested to see a more recent one) – what to do?

  6. I know we all know this, but I think it is worth repeating, if only because I am now in a position where I can spend a bit more time on blogs talking to Aceface: Despite the hysteria in Pravda and the generally provocative approach shown by President Robin’s visits to the Kuriles, the Russians have until only recently held out for a compromise and were willing to give two of the islands back. Frankly, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It was actually what the Japanese government agreed to in 1956, but the government retracted that agreement after its ever-loving ally freaked out.

  7. “don’t touch article 9”

    But polls going back to the 1960s or so show that the Japanese public is also relatively sanguine about the notion of an SDF set up for the “defense of Japan.”

    “Japan needs it’s own arm to protect it’s terrotory and interest.”

    I’d say territory, yes. Interests are a different matter because they are highly subjective. Polls show that Japan’s public is now more than willing to protect its “interests” using the SDF to raise the nation’s status as a global caring citizen, for example, but not for material interest (kokueki). Where the Kuriles sit in the nexus of territory and interest is pretty vague.

  8. “Let’s face it, Russia isn’t apologizing for anything – not for the planned starving millions to death in Ukraine, not for killing 100,000 Japanese after the war ended, nope.”

    The Russian at least apologized on Katyn.Holodomor has been acknowledged by Russians as a the dark side of history.
    What I don’t like is Moscow justifying Japanese slave labor in Siberia and Mongolia on one hand while preach history to Japan on other.

    “I’d say territory, yes. Interests are a different matter because they are highly subjective.”

    My point is we can’t count on “The west”as political ally no more thus in urgent need to possess certain military capability to balance continental powers.
    The dispute with the Russians has been escalated partially because French trying to sell amphibious assault vessels.
    You can find lots of similar precedent in history.Brits wanted to dissolve the alliance after Russia left the stage of the Great game after the revolution.Hitler had non agression pact with Stalin without informing the Japanese in advance.
    And lots of Japanese still remembers Bill Clinton left memo on his advice to Boris Yeltsin on Japanese.
    You will see more occasion in near future that Japan gets no sympathy from our supposed allies of the west.while we are being burdened to help them in elsewhere around the world like middle east.

  9. They didn’t “apologize” for Katyn, however.

    It was a “crime by the Stalinist regime and the Soviet Union, a totalitarian state”.
    “We strongly condemn that regime, who despised the rights and lives of ordinary people.”

    Of course, if that regime took over the northern islands for Mother Russia, good on ’em. So if history is kinda crappy it is the Soviet Union’s fault, if we kinda like the legacy of the Soviet Union then, dammit, you have to learn the proper version of history.

  10. “They didn’t “apologize” for Katyn, however.”

    My bad.Moscow just acknowledged the incident….

    “So if history is kinda crappy it is the Soviet Union’s fault”

    To true.Here’s what President Robin said in Mongolia two years ago.
    “History is such a stubborn thing that can be neither forgotten nor changed”
    He didn’t seems to care about Soviet Union had ordered Ulaanbaatar to “liquidate”nearly 5% of entire population though.

    http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insightb/articles/eav082709.shtml

  11. Former communists are probably pretty good at that tactic. It’s the same trick East Germans used to distance themselves from fascism. Hitler, you see, was just a big fat capitalist.

    >we are being burdened to help them in elsewhere around the world like middle east.

    Let’s just say that there was more than a bit of enthusiasm on the part of the Japanese people who support the Big Japan thesis for that one.

  12. “we are being burdened to help them in elsewhere around the world like middle east.”

    I see Japanese of all political alignments distancing themselves from that – how do you see this playing out?

    “Polls show that Japan’s public is now more than willing to protect its “interests” using the SDF to raise the nation’s status as a global caring citizen, for example”

    To a degree, I think that this is a part of the “legitimacy of the JSDF” point that you made above. There is a big difference between this, however, and actually PAYING for it or actually participating (in the form of a draft or even radically increased troop numbers). By any measure, lifestyle concerns and pressure on the government to guarantee pensions, healthcare, education, public safety, etc. dominate the current political scene from the voter point of view. I just don’t see the Japanese public having either the will to spend on arms or the willingness to go with the option that fits most with Ace’s “possess certain military capability to balance continental powers” – nuclear. There really isn’t any other possible balance. In fact, if stuff were to really hit the fan hard, any conventional capability that Japan has would just be used by those continental powers to justify a very “unconventional” response. I’d even go so far to argue that if the US-Japan security paradigm were to be dramatically rethought, a more conventionally robust would actually be LESS SAFE. Nukes or nothing and since the 67% Article 9 number suggests to me that the percentage supporting getting rid of it AND nuking up would be in the single digits (at most). To try to be realistic about this, if the answer to nukes or nothing is “nothing”, Japan is either stuck relying on America or has to start looking at a new trans-national security framework.

    We can want nukes for Japanese security and I can wish for pinpoint orbital lasers making attack on Japan impossible. It doesn’t mean that either of them is going to happen.

  13. >I see Japanese of all political alignments distancing themselves from that – how do you see this playing out?

    Agreed. Except for the SDF, which has always been up for more action, or at least capabilities, but now they have a ministry to represent their interests. In terms of the Diet it is pretty vague where the LDP and some of the other parties stand at the moment, probably because the MSM has been ignoring them and I’ve been a bit too busy to focus on other sources. When is Abe going to make his comeback?

  14. just curious, but
    what does Japan want the kurils for? Japanese countryside is emptying itself by the day, who in hell is gonna go live there?

  15. FT – it will be interesting to see which way the LDP goes in opposition. Will they do the Abe, Fukuda, and Aso thing which is to consider the bit in Iraq enough? Will they brand the now pro-American DPJ as “not helping enough” and try to be the real kokusaikoken Alliance party? Or will the 反米保守 line in the background of the party and among various peripheral hangers on like Tamogami and Ishihara come to the fore?

    Most likely they’ll be reactive and contrary and never put together a coherent position….

  16. The Kurils may not be where the living is easy, but it’s where the fish are jumping. Also, having Russia claiming islands so close by is humiliating and anger-inducing. (I wonder how Taiwan likes having Japanese islands so near by.)

  17. “Let’s just say that there was more than a bit of enthusiasm on the part of the Japanese people who support the Big Japan thesis for that one.”
    “I see Japanese of all political alignments distancing themselves from that – how do you see this playing out?”

    And the main dynamo of this idea was “A normal Country,Japan”school led by Ozawa Ichiro and MoFA.
    I was reading 日米同盟vs.中国・北朝鮮/アーミテージ・ナイ緊急提言(文春新書)the long round table talk with Richard Armitage,Joseph Nye and Nikkei’s Sunohara Tsuyoshi few days after I met Fat Tony.In that book, Armitage call Ozawa,a “Crook”.Obviously,Ozawa is no longer Washington’s favourite.And his supporter had changed completely.Those who support Ozawa now are center-left liberals who are more or less wants Japan to distance from Washington.

    MoFA has been pushing to make Japan “the nomal country”since the Gulf war.And wanted to make Japan the permanent member at UNSC as to end the post-war era.
    To my understanding,MoFA was more willing to send JSDF to overseas then the men in uniform for they see that is crucial to the Japanese bid.
    I believe it was shocking for them to see China mobilizing angry mass on the streets to block Japan’s bit.But what probably surprised them most is “The West”didn’t even bling their eyes.And with all the confusion within the ministry in Koizumi years,the ministry still can’t recover from the damage.

    The nationalist like Abe had faced extremely negative coverage from abroad and lost their momentum to change consitution.I think that was the last occasion to reshape Japanese political landscape before we hit the iceberg.

    So there you have it.All the pillars that constructed the “normalization process”had fallen.End of “Normal country”project.

    The public are also becoming increasingly skeptic with Japan’s ability to success in abroad.
    Post-war Japan’s diplomatic strategy had two goals.To keep American in Asia,while Asia prospers with Japanese support.Those who gained most from this strategy were Koreans and Chinese.But do they even remember this?Lots of Japanese are not asking for the word of appreciation,but their overall refusal of cooperation with Japan are shocking.Japan constantly compared with Germans unfavourably without any kind of reality check what so ever.

    North Korean abduction is another thing.What is it to be living in a country,when you have 300000 North Korean living in your neighborhood totally protected and actually living so-s-o lifestyle,while Japanese gets abducted without any trace and the government is completely incompetent?
    What if this happens in America?Pretty sure Chongryon would be banned and all the IRS agents would start searching every single Pachinko parlors in the country looking for tax evasion.Those who cooperated with abductions would either be arrested or expelled.
    But none of this never happened in Japan.Instead the society was accused for the rise of”racism” and “xenophobism”against Koreans.And North Korea threatens Japan with nuclear missiles in return.

    With all these things in your mind,do you think Japanese public wants to sacrifice their only son to die in Darfur in the name of world peace?I think not.

  18. “Pretty sure Chongryon would be banned and all the IRS agents would start searching every single Pachinko parlors in the country looking for tax evasion”

    So why doesn’t that happen? Besides the police getting good money from pachinko parlors.

  19. >So why doesn’t that happen?

    Because Japan is a better place.

    >Those who gained most from this strategy were Koreans and Chinese.But do they even remember this?

    Don’t know about that. Korea, maybe, with the grants and soft loans in 1965 and 1983. But China, for their own reasons, even after 1972 didn’t set the ball rolling nearly as early as they should have. Of course, Japan would have liked nothing more than a rich trading China antagonistic towards the Soviet Union, but that ship has sailed. I would say those who gained the most were SE Asia, who, at least after the bubble, have come to love Japan.

    >I think that was the last occasion to reshape Japanese political landscape before we hit the iceberg.

    Perhaps, but I would take issue with your point about Abe being criticized overseas. Sure, the academic types like MacCormack (and myself, for that matter) were rather critical of Abe, but official types weren’t. He was the conservative charged with bringing the love to China and Korea after Koizumi’s Yasukuni tours, and he still gives speeches in Washington, where he is seen as a kind of visionary. A once and future leader of Japan, some think.

  20. how does not enforcing anti-gambling laws in the benefit of a fifth column of an enemy country make Japan a better place than the US?

  21. Spandrell, I am not going to argue “better” or whatnot, but you can think about this in broader historical perspective. When being fired on by the Red Army holdouts in the early 1970s, the Japanese police responded with non-lethal force. It isn’t just the army but not an army Self Defense Forces – the Japanese state has shied away from most violence through the postwar years as a way of buying off social consensus for the conservative growth agenda.

    We see this same contradiction popping up all over the place. The elites often wouldn’t rock the boat and discuss what’s wrong with Japan, but take the Burakumin “Dowa” strategy compared to the post civil rights US strategy toward African American community. The LDP approach was to avoid legal discusisons of discrimination while pouring development money into Buraku communities and giving families “lifestyle allownces” to raise their standard of living and erode welfare dependence. The American approach was to chase down discrimination legally while leaving many African American communities with really poor health, police, and educational infrasturcture. Affirmative action and the prison industrial complex both come out of a state intervention model while the Japanese conservative approach has been, until recently anyway, to look the other way while throwing money at the problem. A hesitance to “go after” the Korean community’s NK connection can be explained in similar terms. Make the state stubborn, spendthrift, and paternalistic, while doing as little overt violence or confrontation as possible.

    This can also explain Japanese foreign policy as well. To a degree anyway….

  22. How would Chongryon finance itself without pachinko?

    M-bone I see your point. But burakumin and North Korea are different matters. Honestly would the public disagree on a crackdown if well advertised?
    Isnt it more likely that the police et al are being handsomly paid off and no one dares touch them? There’s too much money involved.

    Either way the money has ran out so a new strategy is needed here.

  23. Isn’t the problem that the money is sent back to NK? I don’t know that it is too difficult to run the rest of the organization, though I suppose keeping schools in revolutionary textbooks takes some work. However, there is nothing to suggest that the funding of schools and other domestic activities could not be done legally.

    In any case, Chongryon does not have a monopoly on the pachinko industry in Japan. I expect the reason they are not shut down is because there are a lot of other interests at stake. If you target only Chongryon parlors, it’s discriminatory. If you target them all, it’s dangerous.

  24. “Isnt it more likely that the police et al are being handsomly paid off and no one dares touch them?”

    That could indeed be the case. However, it wouldn’t explain why the Yamaguchi-gumi head is jailed while foaming at the mouth NK propagandists go unmolested, nor would it explain the hesitance of a conservative government to seriously bust heads on the far left in the 60s and 70s and the parallels more recently – the hesitance to act on Aum and the serious calls to limit the crackdown and surveillance after the gas attacks, perps who kill police officers but are not shot, the hesitance to use lethal force during the Akihabara massacre, and so on. The Japanese government typically does not go for confrontational action.

    They might be able to sell this one to the Japanese public, you are right. However, look at the “defend Article 9” polls if you get a chance – the “protect” numbers have been going up since 2005, this despite NK’s belligerence. So what you would think is the single biggest threat to Japanese security of the postwar period – getting nuked by an unpredictable commie-fascist state – actually corresponds to a period of DECLINING calls for forceful action by the public.

  25. So Ace, if you agree that there is just no going back to the “normal country” project as the ship has sailed (and the last chance to get nukes probably would have been in the first few years of the 1980s – the Americans wouldn’t have minded as the strategy was moving toward arms escalation to bankrupt the Soviets anyway, the Chinese could have been convinced with wheelbarrows full of yen, etc.), what to do? It seems like you are suggesting what I feel deep down as well – lack of leadership, social norms, and lifestyle concerns mean that The Alliance and putting up with China’s s$%t while maintaining a veneer of cosmopolitan pacifism is the only achievable choice for Japan.

  26. “However, there is nothing to suggest that the funding of schools and other domestic activities could not be done legally”

    It’s difficult to say.Personally,it won’t happen.
    Yesterday,The United Red Army leader Nagata Hiroko died in prison because of
    brain tumor.She has been sentenced death penalty for the past seventeen years.
    But her supporters and the lawyers pushed non execution and eventually won.
    As M-bone puts it.the cops and the government is VERY hesitent to use force.
    The government even failed to apply the counter demolition act law back against Aum Shinrkyo back in 1997.
    Chongryon,along with The Japanese Communisty Party have been the main target of Counter demolition act law for years.But the government has been very hesitent to execute the law for it resembles the Peace preservation law that was used to oppress the political dissidents in the pre-war years.
    Last year was the centennial since the high treason incident and for many people,CDAL=a symptom of fascism.The government rather want to see no devil.

    ” It seems like you are suggesting what I feel deep down as well – lack of leadership, social norms, and lifestyle concerns mean that The Alliance and putting up with China’s s$%t while maintaining a veneer of cosmopolitan pacifism is the only achievable choice for Japan”

    That is correct.Problem is “cosmopolitan pacifism”is not being shared in this part of the world.And even for Japan,it was the product of geopolitical environment that had worked very favourably for Japan in the past.
    Yesterday,Maehara was offended by Russian foreign minister in very undiplomatic manner.Something Kan didn’t do to Medvedev at APEC in Yokohama last November.Government also send bill to Chinese captain of that fishing boat on the same day which will probably be ignored with sarcastic laugh from Beijing.
    We just don’t live in the same strategical environment when the constitution was written by handful of uniformed American officers.Even back in those days,it was considered as a joke and will be revised as soon as the occupation is over.

    I don’t think pacifism will die in the near future nor the nationalism would be the mainstream in the politics.But the point is Japan being completly left behind from our surrounding international relation and we will see the consequence in the near future.

  27. “Problem is “cosmopolitan pacifism”is not being shared in this part of the world.”

    Or anywhere, really, except maybe parts of northern Europe where it is both easy to talk like that and where several countries have a draft to back it up….

    But while “cosmopolitan pacifism” might not be shared, a desire to make money sure is. Japan’s best shot going forward, I think, is to play on that. This means, I’m afraid, having to smile and take any BS from China or Russia, but it does allow a wait and see approach. Let’s see how arrogant Russian leaders are when they run out of oil and natural gas. Pulling the wait and see along with American while staying out of the Mid East and maybe even getting some troops out of Okinawa is probably the best possible scenario for Japan.

    The current DPJ approach seems like the worst possible one – talk just tough enough to enrage neighbors… and then totally cave because there was never the intention or capability (be it military, international court, etc.) to back up the talk with anything in the first place.

    “But the point is Japan being completly left behind from our surrounding international relation and we will see the consequence in the near future.”

    Jump on new trade and maybe even security tie-ups with South Korea (now’s the time) and the Southeast Asian nations, smile and let China talk to the hand while riding Chinese growth to some modicum of balanced growth in Japan, make a big deal out of improving ties with India… there are still things that Japan can do. One of my main concerns is that a China-centric buddy buddy strategy is giving way to a China standoff strategy that will work to piss off China (who, of course, think that their own military spending is for world peace and everyone else’s is for brutal nationalist games) and not be followed through on (is it so unrealistic to imagine Japan arming in the south, pissing off China which takes the Senkakus, only for Japan to do nothing in the end and get no assist from the US?).

  28. “The current DPJ approach seems like the worst possible one – talk just tough enough to enrage neighbors”

    Being a hardcore DPJ supporter,I have to disagree here.Russians and Chinese had done the hard talks first.And they also took some actions to enrage the most liberal administration in the last 50 years.

    I don’t think we will ever have any reliable security partner in South East Asia.ASEAN can’t even handle minor regional dispute like Thai-Cambodia border clash.ASEAN as a whole may not like China’s hegemony in the region.but members will bandwagon with Beijing one by one for they have no other choice.

    South Korea is a continental nation in the peninsula.It’s foreign relation will eternelly be binded by the border with China.Seoul doesn’t realize this,because currently she is more like an island nation with North Korea being a buffer.
    Japan,on the other hand is a maritime island nation where it’s secutiry can be secured becasue of the natural barrier that is ocean.
    Allying with Korea,we lose our natural advantage.Besides,China won’t make enemy with both Japan and Korea at the same time.
    If China has serious disputes with Korea,then it will probably because of the border dispute caused by Korean nationalism influencing ethnic Koreans in China.
    If Japan ever has serious dispute with China,it will be when China attacks Taiwan and US ask Japan to use the base in Okinawa for intervention.
    In either scenario,both Tokyo and Seoul have little to gain by siding with each other.The only thing that ties two nations is the alliance with the U.S.And in my opinion,it would be better for Japan to have American troops pull out of peninsula when two Korea unifies.

  29. “Being a hardcore DPJ supporter,I have to disagree here.”

    I actually agree with you here 100%. Russia and China “started it”. However, with both Russia and China, you have to admit that the DPJ gave a whiff of hardball without following through and this has more or less collapsed party support at home. I say either go for a full on standoff (which in the Chinese case would be saying “okay, you think you have a claim – international arbitration xotherxuckers”), or be the better country and meet belligerence with joint prosperity (not co-prosperity, of course) and co-development compromise rhetoric. As I read it, the DPJ managed to enrage an already irrationally pissed off China, collapse totally and looked like pussies, demolished their approval ratings. Nothing was gained and much screwed up. Some new vision is needed. Ozawa might have had it but so much for that.

    Your South Korea scenario sounds solid, I’m not too hopeful about security tie-ups, nor are they really necessary in the current regional balance. However, with NK fears peaking, this seems to be a good time for the Japanese government to do something. The new apology last August was a start and there are lots of other possibilities – tariff agreements, focused scholarships or jointly funded research, etc.

  30. >And they also took some actions to enrage the most liberal administration in the last 50 years.

    The Kan administration is the most liberal administration since the Hatoyama administration. If we were to talk about Kan personally, however, I’m not sure where on the political spectrum to place somebody who has no personality or thoughts on policy save what he saw on TV five minutes ago. Although I’m not a voter, I’m a firm DPJ supporter too. It’s just the other DPJ. Kan is a backstabbing little weasel.

  31. “Being a hardcore DPJ supporter”
    lol
    hardcore supporter as in hardcore supporter?
    Or as in anything but LDP again? I mean please the DPJ is toast. They won the election because of Ozawa and now they’re hanging him?
    And now they have to raise taxes and cut benefits. Good luck with winning an election ever again.

    Anyway Japan’s security can only go through going nuclear. No other way.

  32. “Kan is a backstabbing little weasel.”

    Kan is virtually impossible to place. I remember him beating the drum about American war crimes in Iraq in 2005 or 2006, but now he occasionally sounds more pro-US conservative than Abe. Lack of vision. He’s the new Aso. This from another hardcore DPJ supporter.

    “And now they have to raise taxes and cut benefits.”

    Japanese politics will go cyclical. Unless the party explodes, the DPJ will be villains until the LDP raises taxes and cuts benefits. This is precisely what is going on with the Republicans – they talk big until they actually have to take some responsibility for the economy. Noble plans are easy in opposition.

    “Anyway Japan’s security can only go through going nuclear. No other way.”

    Aceface and I basically admit this above, but also believe it impossible to actually get there. Short of getting unilaterally nuked, do you really think that anyone could pull this off given the public tenor? Note again – rising Article 9 support in response to NK nuke threat.

    If there is no other way – is that like saying that Japan will just have to find some way to live with never being secure?

  33. The Japanese law on the burning of flags is not unique. Danish Penal Code §110 puts the punishment for publicly mocking a foreign national flag, the UN flag or the EU flag with a fine and/or imprisonment up to 2 years. there is no law protecting the Danish flag.

  34. >He’s the new Aso.

    It’s funny you say that. I now consider Aso and Kan (and Fukuda) to be pretty much “realists” on foreign policy issues – maintain balance of power, suck up to America, try to expand the roles of SDF as much as possible by going around the constitution rather than through it. Thing is, when anyone to the left of these “adults” is in power, we hear so much from conservatives in Japan and the Washington commentariat about how the government needs to get its realism on. But when the realists hold power, they just don’t know what to do except shoot for boringness and stability. But that doesn’t look good politically. So they just accept whatever proposal floats their way.

  35. The funny thing is that Fukuda might have been the most “creative” of the three. At least he seemed to know how to talk to China and America at the same time.

  36. “The Kan administration is the most liberal administration since the Hatoyama administration”

    Kan has never been the member of LDP in his life.Kan>Poppo.Anyway,Kan is my homeboy.

    “hardcore supporter as in hardcore supporter?Or as in anything but LDP again?”

    Same thing,No?

    ” I mean please the DPJ is toast. They won the election because of Ozawa and now they’re hanging him?”

    Hey.Ozawa ain’t alone and he is still the card carrying member of DPJ.

    My respect toward the little weasel has been doubled after that BBC skit and reading the all range of reactions starts from”J don’t get the joke”to”They have problem with English comprehention skills”etc.
    http://bit.ly/aI5WaX

    “Aceface and I basically admit this above, but also believe it impossible to actually get there”

    Anti nuclearism is more than victimhood mentality here in Japan.It’s the core of Post-war Japanese nationalism,as Japan being the vanguard of non-nuclear world order.This too,I reconfirmed from BBC incindent.

    Yeah.as the supreme armchair commander of Japan,I urge the nation to build as much ICBM as possible before the nasty neighbors get us.But the nation would rather die under the mushroom cloud making origami crane instead of taking my option.

    “The funny thing is that Fukuda might have been the most “creative” of the three. At least he seemed to know how to talk to China and America at the same time.”

    I disagree.Fukuda is preferred because he is more predictable than Koizumi and Hatoyama.Fukuda always resepect the status quo.Abe and Kan simply don’t have the management skills.

  37. “But the nation would rather die under the mushroom cloud making origami crane instead of taking my option”

    Come on. the nation will do what its told, as it always has. Just make dentsuu build up a good campaign and in 6 months you have 100 million warmongers.

  38. “Come on. the nation will do what its told as it always has.”

    Looking forward for that.The problem is both the government and Dentsu has been urging the nation to start having babies and somehow there is no positive response coming back.

    BTW,when are you leaving this country Spandrell?

  39. “Just make dentsuu build up a good campaign and in 6 months you have 100 million warmongers.”

    Dentsu, of course, is the company that designed the LDP’s election campaign in 2009.

  40. Making babies is an economical problem. People just don’t have the money for that.
    Supporting nukes doesn’t affect people’s livelihood.

    And I have been out of your country for a year, fwiw

  41. “Supporting nukes doesn’t affect people’s livelihood.”

    Neither does the constitutional revisionism and LDP has been promoting that since 1955.

    Sad to hear your departure.You are always welcome to come back btw.

  42. Thanks to Durf for bumping this one. I just read a report in the Russian press saying that Japan will take no action following the complaint Curzon highlighted. Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano said “The desecration of the national flag is regrettable, but there was no violation of Japanese legislation.” The report then went on to say this: “Japan stands firmly by its position that the extremists desecrated not the Russian flag, but ‘a self-made object,’ resembling a flag”.

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