On foreign trainee program.
http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/honkawa/3820.html

On Zainichi education
文部省学校教育長通達（一九四八年一月二四日）学校教育局長通達「朝鮮人設立学校の取扱いについて」
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/m-kyouiku/net/tuutatu.htm

衆議院議員大島令子君提出朝鮮人（韓国籍・朝鮮籍）学校に関する質問に対する答弁書
平成十四年八月三十日http://www.shugiin.go.jp/itdb_shitsumon.nsf/html/shitsumon/b154151.htm

One.Problem with my poor language /writing skills comes from the fact that I’m not a native English speaker and I didn’t graduated Georgetown.But I take your “other parts are well written” as a compliment,Thank you very much.

“You are apparently not very aware of the whole issue the Nikkeijin and Zainichi have on this issue or have only been reading Japanese literature work on this issue. ”
Whoa.Yes I whole heartly admit I’m not aware of the “whole issue the Nikkeijin and Zainichi” have on this issue.But hey,where was I wrong regarding my discussion with Alan here?

And two,why is ONLY reading Japanese literature work on this issue would be a problem to discuss the matter that Alan was pointing?What does”Homeogeneity”and “Nihonjinron discourse” has anything to do with my argument?
(Anyway I’ve read Befu years ago when I was in college.I thought it was too much focused on Nihonjin-ron and took it too seriously.)
I’m more than happy to learn from future Japan studies student like you probably be enlightened but still,I have this idea that we are more than just Japanologists define us in English literature.

“I don’t know where you are getting your bogus numbers from but its clear you have not done much (if any) real research on this topic and just quoting from various blogs and articles ”

Actually,I did quite a few research.It wasn’t exactly an academic one,perhaps.It was just an old school door to door and chat kind with Brazilian emigres.
And not only I quote from various blogs articles.I actually wrote one myself.
And which “bogus”number are you reffering to anyway?My “bogus” number I quote came from the website of Nihon Keidanren.Don’t blame me.I too think that institution is pretty bogus myself.

“In any case pick up a book and get your facts straight if you intend to make argument worth acknowledging.”

Okay.Present your facts and make some argument worth acknowledging,then.
I’m ready to surrender anytime.

You are apparently not very aware of the whole issue the Nikkeijin and Zainichi have on this issue or have only been reading Japanese literature work on this issue. I don’t know where you are getting your bogus numbers from but its clear you have not done much (if any) real research on this topic and just quoting from various blogs and articles (which would explain your poor language/writing skills in some parts while in other parts are well written). In any case pick up a book and get your facts straight if you intend to make argument worth acknowledging.

I don’t have access to that report, but I believe 18 million by 2030 is a bogus number. In order to maintain the same population level, which isn’t going to happen one way or another, they would need 17 million immigrants by 2050. 10% of the current population would be 12 million anyway.

It’s a completely impossible number.

not to contact with parents,is correct.Rant out.

Never even heard about this “little Japan” versus “big Japan”debate on immigration(There were such argument on imperialism back in the 20’s,but).And Japanese economy is hiring A LOT of workers,mostly in overseas which is same thing as hiring them within Japan in terms of Gross National Product.

“Some have called for something like 10 million foreign workers by 2050, and others have said that 10 million immigrants by then would be more of a ‘cap’ rather then a ‘goal’ for the influx of foreign labor”

”Japan, or at least the government of Japan, doesn’t like the sound of becoming an “immigrant nation”.

If ever there was an instance of people making poor decisions based on vague understandings of Japanese argument on immigration, this must to be it.

“Some” who have called for “something like 10million”foreign workers by 2050 is actually the task force of “The road to Japanese style immigrant nation”which are organized by the league of diet members of the leadiing Liberal Democratic Party and Keidanren and Ministty of industry and commerce came up with the number of 18milliom by 2030.

”But I have significant doubt that it will. The people, and epically the government, would rather ignore the issue and use flagship programs like the Indonesian nurses to make it look like they addressed it.”

And Indonesian workers are not considered as immigrant in neither Jakarta or Tokyo.As Adamu had wrote,it is associated with the liberarization of service sector that connect with free trade agreement.

“I don’t know where you got the idea that foreign workers are increasing in spite of the recession. ”

I got the idea by doing research for my own assignment on Brazilian unemployment
in Aichi prefectrure from December 12 of 2008 to Feburuary 15 of 2009.

Your “impression” is correct as long as it concerns to “Nikkei-jin”,Latinos of Japanese ancestry who have special permited labor visas.However when it comes to “foreigners”,you might also wants to learn a bit about “trainee”programs.Many factories firing Brazilians has been replaced by these trainees from Vietnam.

“My impression was that they were the first ones to be cut. They were offering to pay Japanese Brazilian immigrants to go back home to Brazil. Being sent home early due to the recession hasn’t worked out well for many Chinese workers either.”

Global financial crisis isn’t made in Japan malaise.It was made in Wall street.You just got the wrong country to accuse.
And at least Brazilians were better than many temps from Okinawa who also got laid off and didn’t recieve a yen for their return ticket.Lots of Brazilians do own house back home with money they earned by working in Japan,but not the Japanese who has to live in the high living cost of the country.

And Chinese are replacing the vaccum of Japanese and Brazilians in many factories with wages like 250 yen an hour in Tokai region.I also found out that in yesterday news,SHARP decided to close down plasma display panel TV factory in Kameyama,Mie(known for making 世界の亀山モデル and huge portion of the workers are Brazilians）and start building them in China.Actually the recession does work in favor of the Chinese in a way.

“I don’t doubt that there will be an endless supply of citizens of developing nations who are more than willing to work in Japan, but that’s not a path to integrate those workers into Japanese society. And so far, Japan don’t seem to like that idea.”

The whole argument on foreigners living in Japan had been revolved around the Koreans for the past fifty years.And they have been demanding mostly on one thing.That they want to stay Korean and do not integrate into Japanese.Which is why they had demanded the abolition of public school for Korean children and fired all Japanese teachers in late 40s.Also demanded ministry of education and local educational committee to contact with parents with kids in schooling age,since they shouldn’t be send to Japanese schools,but Korean schools,which is why in Japan,foreign parents with kids are not obliged to send their kids to Japanese public educational institution.Education is their right,but not their obligation.
If Japan don’t seem to be like the idea of integrating foreigners,than it probably comes from past lessons of imperial years.Turning variety of ethnic groups into monotonous Japanese.

“but my impression is that much of the leadership of Japan has already resigned themselves to the decreasing population, decreasing workforce model of the future that only intermittently relies on foreign labor, firstly by relocating factories overseas, second by revolving door temporary workers, and only lastly by actually immigrating people into Japan. I think this is the most likely scenario, and I think we need to accept that.”

Why? I know I won’t.And you are not a Japanese.No?

“I would be happy to be proved wrong”

Glad I could help someone becoming happy,but next time you leave comment,make them more fact oriented.

The problem is that there are no Japanese willing to take on jobs as nurses, and frankly, given the way “nurses” are viewed in Japan, I don’t blame them.

Anyway, I think you have read me wrong, and that is perhaps my fault. My last post was rushed and perhaps a little incoherent. I am not suggesting that Japan “deregulate” some of the positions open only to nurses. That’s the way the system works in the U.S., and in general, I don’t think it is a good thing.

I am also not suggesting a relaxation of nursing qualifications. The exams required to enter the profession in some other countries are just as stringent (or more so) as in Japan (or the United States). So Japan’s task should be figuring out which national health systems insist on high standards in their training. they should then recruit nurses by waiving the requirement to sit a comprehensive exam if they have already been through such training.

Japan issues driver licenses on this basis: some licenses are instantly convertible to Japanese ones (for a fee), some aren’t. It depends on the integrity of the foreign system in question. If you can push two tons of metal around in public without a Japanese test when you are fully qualified to do so elsewhere, I don’t see why you can’t hand a doctor a scalpel under similar circumstances.

The language barrier is a canard. I doubt foreign nurses destined for roles in, say, gynecology will need to know the Japanese for testicular cancer. If it is necessary, they can learn it on the job. Or they can take “specialist” courses, as is the case when they specialise in their own country. As long as Japan insists on the test it will lose qualified and competent foreign nurses seeking work abroad to other countries.

The demand is huge, but I never meant to say anything about demand. There are tons of hospitals that will welcome foreign care givers if given the chance, but the point is that the government doesn’t want that to happen. If the nation had any intention of stepping up to the plate and make the changes needed to get huge numbers or workers to come into the country, then foreign workers wouldn’t be there on the ‘revolving door’ policy in the first place. They would be there as a permanent part of Japan’s production machine. The Indonesian nurse program is just one example of a poor excuse for implementing permanent programs that accomplish this.

@Aceface: I don’t know where you got the idea that foreign workers are increasing in spite of the recession. My impression was that they were the first ones to be cut. They were offering to pay Japanese Brazilian immigrants to go back home to Brazil. Being sent home early due to the recession hasn’t worked out well for many Chinese workers either.

Japan, or at least the government of Japan, doesn’t like the sound of becoming an “immigrant nation”. I question how much of the current foreign worker population is firmly settled in the nation versus being there on a contract that still allows their employer or the government of Japan to ask them to leave (the country) whenever they feel like it. Even with this unfavorable and one-sided arrangement, I don’t doubt that there will be an endless supply of citizens of developing nations who are more than willing to work in Japan, but that’s not a path to integrate those workers into Japanese society. And so far, Japan don’t seem to like that idea.

A formal immigration policy would be a responsible and coherent approach to addressing the current situation, I agree that that should happen. But I have significant doubt that it will. The people, and epically the government, would rather ignore the issue and use flagship programs like the Indonesian nurses to make it look like they addressed it.

I would be happy to be proved wrong, but my impression is that much of the leadership of Japan has already resigned themselves to the decreasing population, decreasing workforce model of the future that only intermittently relies on foreign labor, firstly by relocating factories overseas, second by revolving door temporary workers, and only lastly by actually immigrating people into Japan. I think this is the most likely scenario, and I think we need to accept that. As such, the Indonesian nurses will doubtfully be the beginning of something new, but a program that goes counter to the current, where foreign labor is purported be well trained, welcome, and well integrated into society.

I am sorry if you mistook this one post for a comprehensive look at the state of immigration in Japan. It would be unwise to over-interpret the importance of this one program and jump to conclusions about Japanese society as a whole. That this program as currently designed probably won’t work does not necessarily lead to a hopeless conclusion.

For more reading I would recommend this story from the Japan Times on Sakanaka’s campaign:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080126f1.html

Bryce: I am a little hesitant to suggest relaxing the nursing qualifications just to accommodate foreign workers because in that case wouldn’t you want to open the deregulated jobs to Japanese citizens first?