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	<title>Comments on: Gay politics in Taiwan vs. Japan</title>
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		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-342340</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-342340</guid>
		<description>&quot;Japan is kind of an odd case in terms of LGBT attitudes in that both historically and today the taboo against homosexual SEX seems to be on the weak side, but the space for gay/lesbian identity/culture is still very, very small.&quot;


I had shared flat with French gay man in Chiba for about eight months.That doesn&#039;t make me an expert on Japanese gay gulture,but according to what he says,Shinjyuku 2cho-me is the largest gay/lesbian identity/culture district he had ever seen,that including Le Marais in Paris.Also I&#039;ve learned Hibiya park is one big rendez-vous point for gay in Tokyo.

Part of the reason why LGBT rights in Japan a minor issue is because this has been considered as personal business and not social issues.And npbody was against this because they weren&#039;t oppressed by the power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Japan is kind of an odd case in terms of <span class="caps">LGBT</span> attitudes in that both historically and today the taboo against homosexual <span class="caps">SEX</span> seems to be on the weak side, but the space for gay/lesbian identity/culture is still very, very small.&#8221;</p>
<p>I had shared flat with French gay man in Chiba for about eight months.That doesn&#8217;t make me an expert on Japanese gay gulture,but according to what he says,Shinjyuku 2cho-me is the largest gay/lesbian identity/culture district he had ever seen,that including Le Marais in Paris.Also I&#8217;ve learned Hibiya park is one big rendez-vous point for gay in Tokyo.</p>
<p>Part of the reason why <span class="caps">LGBT</span> rights in Japan a minor issue is because this has been considered as personal business and not social issues.And npbody was against this because they weren&#8217;t oppressed by the power.</p>
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		<title>By: Mulboyne</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341858</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulboyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341858</guid>
		<description>With words and phrases like Gender Identity Disorder and transsexual appearing more often in the press in Japan, its interesting to wonder how someone like &quot;Peter&quot;/Shinnosuke Ikehata would seem today. For all intents and purposes, Peter lives as a woman, appears on television, including NHK, features in commercials and is a well-established figure in the entertainment world. However, he still maintains a male identity when he uses the name Shinnosuke Ikehata. Most famously, he played the Fool in &quot;Ran&quot;, Kurosawa&#039;s version of Lear, but according to his Wiki entry, he also used both names when he voiced two separate characters, a male lead and a female dragon, in the Playstation game Drakengard. In a different way, I suppose Ikko has a similar dual-identity but, offhand, I can&#039;t think of comparable individuals in the west. The Japanese language probably helps because you could easily speak or write about both Ikko and Peter without ever needing to use a male or female pronoun whereas it would be hard to avoid making the choice in English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With words and phrases like Gender Identity Disorder and transsexual appearing more often in the press in Japan, its interesting to wonder how someone like &#8220;Peter&#8221;/Shinnosuke Ikehata would seem today. For all intents and purposes, Peter lives as a woman, appears on television, including <span class="caps">NHK</span>, features in commercials and is a well-established figure in the entertainment world. However, he still maintains a male identity when he uses the name Shinnosuke Ikehata. Most famously, he played the Fool in &#8220;Ran&#8221;, Kurosawa&#8217;s version of Lear, but according to his Wiki entry, he also used both names when he voiced two separate characters, a male lead and a female dragon, in the Playstation game Drakengard. In a different way, I suppose Ikko has a similar dual-identity but, offhand, I can&#8217;t think of comparable individuals in the west. The Japanese language probably helps because you could easily speak or write about both Ikko and Peter without ever needing to use a male or female pronoun whereas it would be hard to avoid making the choice in English.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341752</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341752</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t actually been to any SE Asian country aside from the Philippines and Thailand so some of this is hearsay, but I have heard and read that cross-dressing, transexuality, etc. are more tolerated in Malaysia than generally believed, although &quot;sodomy&quot; is illegal under Muslim law there. Indonesia is also predominantly Muslim, but has a significant Hindu population, and the Islam practiced by Javans, the largest ethnic group, retains a number of beliefs and customs left over from their older animist and Hindu traditions and is said to have much of the tolerance of reincarnation-believing Hinduism and Buddhism for LGBT persons. Buddhist countries such as Thailand (the only one of SE Asia I&#039;ve been to) are definitely pretty liberal in this regard, although Adam would know much more about it, as he lived there for about a year. The Philippines is also an interesting case. Although they are as overwhelmingly Catholic as Malaysia is Muslim, tolerance for homosexuality is one (presumably ancient) custom that the Church never had any significant impact on. While I do not believe the law provides for any same-sex relationship rights, cross-dressing and homosexuality seem to be completely tolerated on all levels of society in most of the country. A surprisingly large proportion of my Filipino friends and acquaintances have been gay or lesbian, and they all say there is basically no problem. Fun fact-the first gay marriage ceremony was performed in 2005 by Communist Guerrillas. Needless to say it was not recognized by the state. http://gotmahmojo.livejournal.com/83159.html

However, while I do believe that Japan is less liberal about LGBT rights/issues than any SE Asian country (with the very possible exception of Malaysia, and perhaps Singapore) I may very well have exaggerated in the comparison with Korea and China. Oh, and let&#039;s not forget North Korea. I can&#039;t imagine the DPRK takes very kindly to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t actually been to any <span class="caps">SE </span>Asian country aside from the Philippines and Thailand so some of this is hearsay, but I have heard and read that cross-dressing, transexuality, etc. are more tolerated in Malaysia than generally believed, although &#8220;sodomy&#8221; is illegal under Muslim law there. Indonesia is also predominantly Muslim, but has a significant Hindu population, and the Islam practiced by Javans, the largest ethnic group, retains a number of beliefs and customs left over from their older animist and Hindu traditions and is said to have much of the tolerance of reincarnation-believing Hinduism and Buddhism for <span class="caps">LGBT</span> persons. Buddhist countries such as Thailand (the only one of <span class="caps">SE </span>Asia I&#8217;ve been to) are definitely pretty liberal in this regard, although Adam would know much more about it, as he lived there for about a year. The Philippines is also an interesting case. Although they are as overwhelmingly Catholic as Malaysia is Muslim, tolerance for homosexuality is one (presumably ancient) custom that the Church never had any significant impact on. While I do not believe the law provides for any same-sex relationship rights, cross-dressing and homosexuality seem to be completely tolerated on all levels of society in most of the country. A surprisingly large proportion of my Filipino friends and acquaintances have been gay or lesbian, and they all say there is basically no problem. Fun fact-the first gay marriage ceremony was performed in 2005 by Communist Guerrillas. Needless to say it was not recognized by the state. <a href="http://gotmahmojo.livejournal.com/83159.html" rel="nofollow">http://gotmahmojo.livejournal.com/83159.html</a></p>
<p>However, while I do believe that Japan is less liberal about <span class="caps">LGBT</span> rights/issues than any <span class="caps">SE </span>Asian country (with the very possible exception of Malaysia, and perhaps Singapore) I may very well have exaggerated in the comparison with Korea and China. Oh, and let&#8217;s not forget North Korea. I can&#8217;t imagine the <span class="caps">DPRK</span> takes very kindly to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341688</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341688</guid>
		<description>&quot;I get the impression that homosexuality and related issues are still generally more taboo here than anywhere else in all of East and Southeast Asia&quot;

The only country I have been to in (North-) East Asia is Japan, so I don&#039;t know what the situation is like in China, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. I have been all over Southeast Asia though, and I can&#039;t agree with such a broad statement. If you compare Japan to Theravada Buddhist countries like Thailand or Cambodia, sure. homosexuality is accepted pretty openly - although many people will say that it&#039;s wrong, they tolerate it. But compared to the predominantly Muslim countries of Malaysia and Indonesia (and also to the less-Muslim-but-anal-retentive Singapore), I would say Japan is much more accepting of homosexuality. I don&#039;t know about the Philippines as I haven&#039;t been there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I get the impression that homosexuality and related issues are still generally more taboo here than anywhere else in all of East and Southeast Asia&#8221;</p>
<p>The only country I have been to in (North-) East Asia is Japan, so I don&#8217;t know what the situation is like in China, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. I have been all over Southeast Asia though, and I can&#8217;t agree with such a broad statement. If you compare Japan to Theravada Buddhist countries like Thailand or Cambodia, sure. homosexuality is accepted pretty openly &#8211; although many people will say that it&#8217;s wrong, they tolerate it. But compared to the predominantly Muslim countries of Malaysia and Indonesia (and also to the less-Muslim-but-anal-retentive Singapore), I would say Japan is much more accepting of homosexuality. I don&#8217;t know about the Philippines as I haven&#8217;t been there.</p>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341685</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341685</guid>
		<description>Sidenote:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200903/200903030002.html

Compared to the US, there is an amazing social tolerance for cross-dressing in Japan, Korea, Thailand, and elsewhere, far more than anything seen anywhere in the West.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sidenote:<br />
<a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200903/200903030002.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200903/200903030002.html</a></p>
<p>Compared to the US, there is an amazing social tolerance for cross-dressing in Japan, Korea, Thailand, and elsewhere, far more than anything seen anywhere in the West.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341660</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341660</guid>
		<description>LB&#039;s view of the world is part of the reason why Japan is full of paved rivers and bridges to nowhere. Sure, politicians have to be accountable to their constituents--otherwise they won&#039;t stay in office for long--but politicians have a broader accountability to the people of the state, including the minority. The district is important, but if it&#039;s all about the district, the state ends up being a giant tragedy of the commons.

Besides that, as a couple of commenters have noted above, most minority politicians are not explicitly running to serve their minority, except for a few whose minority happens to also be their home constituency (the Cuban-Americans in Miami come to mind).

I think the key benefit of having minorities in politics is that they bring some of the minority&#039;s voice directly to the policy-making table. All these laws go through committee, and the committees are generally less about constituencies than they are about focused legislative expertise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB&#8217;s view of the world is part of the reason why Japan is full of paved rivers and bridges to nowhere. Sure, politicians have to be accountable to their constituents&#8212;otherwise they won&#8217;t stay in office for long&#8212;but politicians have a broader accountability to the people of the state, including the minority. The district is important, but if it&#8217;s all about the district, the state ends up being a giant tragedy of the commons.</p>
<p>Besides that, as a couple of commenters have noted above, most minority politicians are not explicitly running to serve their minority, except for a few whose minority happens to also be their home constituency (the Cuban-Americans in Miami come to mind).</p>
<p>I think the key benefit of having minorities in politics is that they bring some of the minority&#8217;s voice directly to the policy-making table. All these laws go through committee, and the committees are generally less about constituencies than they are about focused legislative expertise.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341557</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341557</guid>
		<description>Some very good responses. I was on a trip to Nagoya for the past two days so I was more or less disconnected, but Exkuma in particular elaborated on what I was thinking when I wrote the post but didn&#039;t really explain. Such is the downside of wanting to quickly hit the &quot;publish&quot; button with only 5 minutes left before running out the door.

Japan is kind of an odd case in terms of LGBT attitudes in that both historically and today the taboo against homosexual SEX seems to be on the weak side, but the space for gay/lesbian identity/culture is still very, very small.

I personally have had basically no experiences speaking with openly gay Japanese men in Japan although there have definitely been a couple of likely suspects, although I do know some young women who are openly lesbian. When I was studying in Kyoto a few years ago I was friends with a couple of gay Filipino guys who were also studying in the area who didn&#039;t seem to have any trouble meeting Japanese guys who were gay in private, but didn&#039;t seem to have any luck meeting guys who would date openly.

On a related note, interesting article here on recent events in China: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/gay-rights-china-beijing
When I was in Xian in 2003, I was rather shocked to find an extremely flagrant gay dance club directly next door to the youth hostel where I was staying (the disco beats were kind of irritating at night), since I had thought it was still banned in China. I was told by the hostel staaff that the police would go and raid it every once in a while, but were probably really just looking for bribes, and the club had made a habit of hiring women to hang out and drink so if authorities came they could make a reasonable case that it wasn&#039;t REALLY a gay club. I&#039;m curious to know if things have continued to become easier for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some very good responses. I was on a trip to Nagoya for the past two days so I was more or less disconnected, but Exkuma in particular elaborated on what I was thinking when I wrote the post but didn&#8217;t really explain. Such is the downside of wanting to quickly hit the &#8220;publish&#8221; button with only 5 minutes left before running out the door.</p>
<p>Japan is kind of an odd case in terms of <span class="caps">LGBT</span> attitudes in that both historically and today the taboo against homosexual <span class="caps">SEX</span> seems to be on the weak side, but the space for gay/lesbian identity/culture is still very, very small.</p>
<p>I personally have had basically no experiences speaking with openly gay Japanese men in Japan although there have definitely been a couple of likely suspects, although I do know some young women who are openly lesbian. When I was studying in Kyoto a few years ago I was friends with a couple of gay Filipino guys who were also studying in the area who didn&#8217;t seem to have any trouble meeting Japanese guys who were gay in private, but didn&#8217;t seem to have any luck meeting guys who would date openly.</p>
<p>On a related note, interesting article here on recent events in China: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/gay-rights-china-beijing" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/gay-rights-china-beijing</a><br />
When I was in Xian in 2003, I was rather shocked to find an extremely flagrant gay dance club directly next door to the youth hostel where I was staying (the disco beats were kind of irritating at night), since I had thought it was still banned in China. I was told by the hostel staaff that the police would go and raid it every once in a while, but were probably really just looking for bribes, and the club had made a habit of hiring women to hang out and drink so if authorities came they could make a reasonable case that it wasn&#8217;t <span class="caps">REALLY</span> a gay club. I&#8217;m curious to know if things have continued to become easier for them.</p>
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		<title>By: CityDweller</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341554</link>
		<dc:creator>CityDweller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341554</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see running on a LGB platform in priniciple any different then running on a number of issues such as being a green or a small businessman.  The idea is that someone from a particular group will be more atuned to the needs of that group and be able to argue convincingly around legislation that touches that area.  We all have our blind spots.  

An openly out political leader does change people&#039;s perceptions of gays.  It gives visibility to someone doing a responsible job.  That a gay person is not restricted to entertainment and fashion.

Visibility is important.  For example Obama, regardless of whether he turns out to be a good or bad president, has changed people&#039;s perceptions of the US.  The general shorthand for American - is usually something along the lines of a fat George W Bush clone and the idea that a society often castigated as being racist has elected a black president has thrown many for a loop.  Also that black people have other roles in US society besides sports and entertainment (Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell being two notable exceptions)

An openly out official doing a good job would also do the same.  However I must agree with LB&#039;s point that to elect someone simply because they fall within our special interest group is short sighted.  What&#039;s needed is someone who can do the job AND look at the special areas of concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see running on a <span class="caps">LGB</span> platform in priniciple any different then running on a number of issues such as being a green or a small businessman.  The idea is that someone from a particular group will be more atuned to the needs of that group and be able to argue convincingly around legislation that touches that area.  We all have our blind spots.</p>
<p>An openly out political leader does change people&#8217;s perceptions of gays.  It gives visibility to someone doing a responsible job.  That a gay person is not restricted to entertainment and fashion.</p>
<p>Visibility is important.  For example Obama, regardless of whether he turns out to be a good or bad president, has changed people&#8217;s perceptions of the US.  The general shorthand for American &#8211; is usually something along the lines of a fat George W Bush clone and the idea that a society often castigated as being racist has elected a black president has thrown many for a loop.  Also that black people have other roles in US society besides sports and entertainment (Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell being two notable exceptions)</p>
<p>An openly out official doing a good job would also do the same.  However I must agree with LB&#8217;s point that to elect someone simply because they fall within our special interest group is short sighted.  What&#8217;s needed is someone who can do the job <span class="caps">AND</span> look at the special areas of concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Mulboyne</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341035</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulboyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341035</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think any gay or transgender candidates run on the ticket that they intend to ignore their straight constituents. They may well run on a platform to raise issues which concern the LGBT community but that&#039;s no different to every other politician who runs on a particular platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think any gay or transgender candidates run on the ticket that they intend to ignore their straight constituents. They may well run on a platform to raise issues which concern the <span class="caps">LGBT</span> community but that&#8217;s no different to every other politician who runs on a particular platform.</p>
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		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/02/28/gay-politics-in-taiwan-vs-japan/comment-page-1/#comment-341026</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=3250#comment-341026</guid>
		<description>So Joe, how many gay, lesbian or transsexual legislators sponsored or voted for that legislation?  Now, how many straight, non-transsexual ones did?  Now, why is it again that you have to have gay, lesbian or transsexual legislators to ensure that such legislation gets through?

You don&#039;t.  Anymore than America needed a black President to integrate the military in the 1950s, or get the civil rights laws through in the 1960s, or an all-female Supreme Court to declare abortion legal.

As I said, a good politician (OK, oxymoron, but work with me here...) will look out for the needs of ALL their constituents.  I could care less if my local representative is gay, used to be a guy, is black or what have you.  I start caring when that person stands up and says &quot;I belong to group xxx and if elected I will look out for all the members of my group!&quot;  Wrong answer.  Correct answer: &quot;I am running in Tokyo District 13, and if elected I will look out for all the people of District 13!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Joe, how many gay, lesbian or transsexual legislators sponsored or voted for that legislation?  Now, how many straight, non-transsexual ones did?  Now, why is it again that you have to have gay, lesbian or transsexual legislators to ensure that such legislation gets through?</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t.  Anymore than America needed a black President to integrate the military in the 1950s, or get the civil rights laws through in the 1960s, or an all-female Supreme Court to declare abortion legal.</p>
<p>As I said, a good politician (OK, oxymoron, but work with me here&#8230;) will look out for the needs of <span class="caps">ALL</span> their constituents.  I could care less if my local representative is gay, used to be a guy, is black or what have you.  I start caring when that person stands up and says &#8220;I belong to group xxx and if elected I will look out for all the members of my group!&#8221;  Wrong answer.  Correct answer: &#8220;I am running in Tokyo District 13, and if elected I will look out for all the people of District 13!&#8221; </p>
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