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	<title>Comments on: Visa experts?</title>
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	<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/</link>
	<description>Photos, Stories and articles on East Asia</description>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-270351</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 14:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-270351</guid>
		<description>The place is a standard bar, nothing special (soon to be remade as an Italian bar, hence the required italian presence to give it the neccessary authenticity...just ignore the fact that the name has nothing to do with Italy and the slogan&#039;s in Itarian), so it hopefully it avoids any of the 風俗 grey area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The place is a standard bar, nothing special (soon to be remade as an Italian bar, hence the required italian presence to give it the neccessary authenticity&#8230;just ignore the fact that the name has nothing to do with Italy and the slogan&#8217;s in Itarian), so it hopefully it avoids any of the 風俗 grey area.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-270304</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 11:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-270304</guid>
		<description>I did know the term &quot;lux&quot; is a unit of luminance but I couldn&#039;t tell you how bright one is. 10 sounds pretty dark- maybe back in the day bars or cafes that dark tended to have prostitution or drugs at the table or something?

BTW, I&#039;m reminded now of a very strange Frenchman I once met at a party in Osaka, a corpulent fellow who had been working as a fake wedding minister for 13 years, and claimed to have never paid any taxes in his entire life. He also claimed to have spent none of that time in Japan on a legitimate visa, with one of his scams having actually gotten a work visa claiming to be a butler to his friend who worked at the French Consul in Osaka. His friend lived alone in a 4 tatami room in a dormitory, but noone checked that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did know the term &#8220;lux&#8221; is a unit of luminance but I couldn&#8217;t tell you how bright one is. 10 sounds pretty dark- maybe back in the day bars or cafes that dark tended to have prostitution or drugs at the table or something?</p>
<p><span class="caps">BTW</span>, I&#8217;m reminded now of a very strange Frenchman I once met at a party in Osaka, a corpulent fellow who had been working as a fake wedding minister for 13 years, and claimed to have never paid any taxes in his entire life. He also claimed to have spent none of that time in Japan on a legitimate visa, with one of his scams having actually gotten a work visa claiming to be a butler to his friend who worked at the French Consul in Osaka. His friend lived alone in a 4 tatami room in a dormitory, but noone checked that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-270184</link>
		<dc:creator>Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 06:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-270184</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff . . . But is &quot;civil twilight&quot; a commonly known term? &quot;Dusk in which we say please and thank you to one another&quot; was my first thought, but it has a rather technical definition here:

http://www.planetultra.com/civil.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff . . . But is &#8220;civil twilight&#8221; a commonly known term? &#8220;Dusk in which we say please and thank you to one another&#8221; was my first thought, but it has a rather technical definition here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.planetultra.com/civil.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.planetultra.com/civil.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-270121</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 04:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-270121</guid>
		<description>BTW, I had to look up the term &quot;ルクス&quot; in order to realize that they categorize the business for purposes of item 5 based on the level of light inside!

According to Wikipedia, civil twilight is about 3 lx and a family living room is about 50 lx, so I suppose the regulatory cutoff is in the &quot;pretty dark&quot; range--i.e. club dark, not bar dark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="caps">BTW</span>, I had to look up the term &#8220;ルクス&#8221; in order to realize that they categorize the business for purposes of item 5 based on the level of light inside!</p>
<p>According to Wikipedia, civil twilight is about 3 lx and a family living room is about 50 lx, so I suppose the regulatory cutoff is in the &#8220;pretty dark&#8221; range&#8212;i.e. club dark, not bar dark.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-270119</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 03:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-270119</guid>
		<description>Yeah Roy, you&#039;re thinking what I&#039;m thinking. The legal definition of &quot;fuuzoku eigyou&quot; ([restricted] nightlife business) is really complicated but I reckon the bar in question is probably exempt...

一 　キヤバレーその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせ、かつ、客の接待をして客に飲食をさせる営業
二 　待合、料理店、カフエーその他設備を設けて客の接待をして客に遊興又は飲食をさせる営業（前号に該当する営業を除く。）
三 　ナイトクラブその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせ、かつ、客に飲食をさせる営業（第一号に該当する営業を除く。）
四 　ダンスホールその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせる営業（第一号若しくは前号に該当する営業又は客にダンスを教授するための営業のうちダンスを教授する者（政令で定めるダンスの教授に関する講習を受けその課程を修了した者その他ダンスを正規に教授する能力を有する者として政令で定める者に限る。）が客にダンスを教授する場合にのみ客にダンスをさせる営業を除く。）
五 　喫茶店、バーその他設備を設けて客に飲食をさせる営業で、国家公安委員会規則で定めるところにより計つた客席における照度を十ルクス以下として営むもの（第一号から第三号までに掲げる営業として営むものを除く。）
六 　喫茶店、バーその他設備を設けて客に飲食をさせる営業で、他から見通すことが困難であり、かつ、その広さが五平方メートル以下である客席を設けて営むもの
七 　まあじやん屋、ぱちんこ屋その他設備を設けて客に射幸心をそそるおそれのある遊技をさせる営業
八 　スロットマシン、テレビゲーム機その他の遊技設備で本来の用途以外の用途として射幸心をそそるおそれのある遊技に用いることができるもの（国家公安委員会規則で定めるものに限る。）を備える店舗その他これに類する区画された施設（旅館業その他の営業の用に供し、又はこれに随伴する施設で政令で定めるものを除く。）において当該遊技設備により客に遊技をさせる営業（前号に該当する営業を除く。） 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://law.e-gov.go.jp/htmldata/S23/S23HO122.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;source&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Roy, you&#8217;re thinking what I&#8217;m thinking. The legal definition of &#8220;fuuzoku eigyou&#8221; ([restricted] nightlife business) is really complicated but I reckon the bar in question is probably exempt&#8230;</p>
<p>一 　キヤバレーその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせ、かつ、客の接待をして客に飲食をさせる営業<br />
二 　待合、料理店、カフエーその他設備を設けて客の接待をして客に遊興又は飲食をさせる営業（前号に該当する営業を除く。）<br />
三 　ナイトクラブその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせ、かつ、客に飲食をさせる営業（第一号に該当する営業を除く。）<br />
四 　ダンスホールその他設備を設けて客にダンスをさせる営業（第一号若しくは前号に該当する営業又は客にダンスを教授するための営業のうちダンスを教授する者（政令で定めるダンスの教授に関する講習を受けその課程を修了した者その他ダンスを正規に教授する能力を有する者として政令で定める者に限る。）が客にダンスを教授する場合にのみ客にダンスをさせる営業を除く。）<br />
五 　喫茶店、バーその他設備を設けて客に飲食をさせる営業で、国家公安委員会規則で定めるところにより計つた客席における照度を十ルクス以下として営むもの（第一号から第三号までに掲げる営業として営むものを除く。）<br />
六 　喫茶店、バーその他設備を設けて客に飲食をさせる営業で、他から見通すことが困難であり、かつ、その広さが五平方メートル以下である客席を設けて営むもの<br />
七 　まあじやん屋、ぱちんこ屋その他設備を設けて客に射幸心をそそるおそれのある遊技をさせる営業<br />
八 　スロットマシン、テレビゲーム機その他の遊技設備で本来の用途以外の用途として射幸心をそそるおそれのある遊技に用いることができるもの（国家公安委員会規則で定めるものに限る。）を備える店舗その他これに類する区画された施設（旅館業その他の営業の用に供し、又はこれに随伴する施設で政令で定めるものを除く。）において当該遊技設備により客に遊技をさせる営業（前号に該当する営業を除く。）</p>
<p><a href="http://law.e-gov.go.jp/htmldata/S23/S23HO122.html" rel="nofollow">source</a></p>
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		<title>By: Roy Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-269653</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-269653</guid>
		<description>Also worth noting that student visas disallow work in &quot;風俗&quot;, like the working holiday visa. But I actually don&#039;t know if conventional bars (i.e. not a host/hostess club) count in there, since most they are providing no special entertainment and in Japan usually have full food menus. I am almost 100% sure that foreign students can legally work in izakaya here (if not, where WOULD most of them work?) so I would assume that the Irish pub selling Guinness with fish and chips falls under the same category.

BTW, students are allowed to work up to 8 hours per day during certain vacation periods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also worth noting that student visas disallow work in &#8220;風俗&#8221;, like the working holiday visa. But I actually don&#8217;t know if conventional bars (i.e. not a host/hostess club) count in there, since most they are providing no special entertainment and in Japan usually have full food menus. I am almost 100% sure that foreign students can legally work in izakaya here (if not, where <span class="caps">WOULD</span> most of them work?) so I would assume that the Irish pub selling Guinness with fish and chips falls under the same category.</p>
<p><span class="caps">BTW</span>, students are allowed to work up to 8 hours per day during certain vacation periods.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-269648</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-269648</guid>
		<description>The Humanities/International Services seems to be the way to go for now, can anyone clarify the following from the necessary documentation page:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/05.html#b

A diploma or a certificate of graduation with a major in a subject relating to the activity of the person concerned, and documents certifying his or her professional career.

Would this be an actual degree? He has a 3 year diploma (not technically a degree) in Japanese from a fairly well-know Italian college, and should be getting the Italian equivalent of the TOEFL this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Humanities/International Services seems to be the way to go for now, can anyone clarify the following from the necessary documentation page:<br />
<a href="http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/05.html#b" rel="nofollow">http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/05.html#b</a></p>
<p>A diploma or a certificate of graduation with a major in a subject relating to the activity of the person concerned, and documents certifying his or her professional career.</p>
<p>Would this be an actual degree? He has a 3 year diploma (not technically a degree) in Japanese from a fairly well-know Italian college, and should be getting the Italian equivalent of the <span class="caps">TOEFL</span> this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-269630</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-269630</guid>
		<description>What do you mean by Second World? IIRC that used to mean the Soviet/Communist block, which today I suppose could include DPRK and Cuba, and maybe China under a rather loose definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you mean by Second World? <span class="caps">IIRC</span> that used to mean the Soviet/Communist block, which today I suppose could include <span class="caps">DPRK</span> and Cuba, and maybe China under a rather loose definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-269219</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-269219</guid>
		<description>&quot;I suppose he could set up some kind of dodgy fake activity in Italy that could acquire a stake in the bar, but it all seems very complicated and I doubt neither party would want to foot the expenses.&quot;

Well, set up a partnership agreement, or establish non-voting shares in an Italian company, or anything that establishes what looks on paper to be a real relationship between the two cross-border entities.  I&#039;ve seen worse -- a music-degree holding &quot;engineer&quot; from a 2nd world country, with a Japanese K.K. run by 2nd worlders, with a ridiculous share transfer agreement between the KK and a 2nd world entity, used to bring workers into Japan.  

Visas under the category of &quot;research&quot; or &quot;Entertainment&quot; don&#039;t really work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I suppose he could set up some kind of dodgy fake activity in Italy that could acquire a stake in the bar, but it all seems very complicated and I doubt neither party would want to foot the expenses.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, set up a partnership agreement, or establish non-voting shares in an Italian company, or anything that establishes what looks on paper to be a real relationship between the two cross-border entities.  I&#8217;ve seen worse&#8212;a music-degree holding &#8220;engineer&#8221; from a 2nd world country, with a Japanese K.K. run by 2nd worlders, with a ridiculous share transfer agreement between the KK and a 2nd world entity, used to bring workers into Japan.</p>
<p>Visas under the category of &#8220;research&#8221; or &#8220;Entertainment&#8221; don&#8217;t really work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mulboyne</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2008/05/07/visa-experts/comment-page-1/#comment-269161</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulboyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/?p=2195#comment-269161</guid>
		<description>Actually, Joe, the working holiday visa does not allow you to work in bars, clubs, cabarets or pachinko parlours so those bartenders you know are working illegally. However, while someone working as a hostess might easily be caught in a raid and deported, the police haven&#039;t really bothered nabbing working holiday visa bartenders unless their place of work is known for drugs. The risk of being caught is likely to be slightly higher in the cities but probably low in places like beach and ski resorts.

There are also restrictions on the type of work you can do with a work permit based on a student visa. Interestingly, however, in March this year, a Chinese student successfully challenged a deportation order which had been issued because she had been working as a hostess and Immigration decided she had earned more money than necessary for her to live in Japan. The judge said &quot;The woman was studying as much as average university students, if not more. Education, separate from her night job, was valuable for her.&quot;

Most of the long-term foreign (white) bartenders are on spouse visas or even hold permanent residence. There are also some civilians working for the US military who own and work in bars although I believe their military contracts forbid this and the old &quot;blind-eye policy&quot;has been tightened up considerably recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Joe, the working holiday visa does not allow you to work in bars, clubs, cabarets or pachinko parlours so those bartenders you know are working illegally. However, while someone working as a hostess might easily be caught in a raid and deported, the police haven&#8217;t really bothered nabbing working holiday visa bartenders unless their place of work is known for drugs. The risk of being caught is likely to be slightly higher in the cities but probably low in places like beach and ski resorts.</p>
<p>There are also restrictions on the type of work you can do with a work permit based on a student visa. Interestingly, however, in March this year, a Chinese student successfully challenged a deportation order which had been issued because she had been working as a hostess and Immigration decided she had earned more money than necessary for her to live in Japan. The judge said &#8220;The woman was studying as much as average university students, if not more. Education, separate from her night job, was valuable for her.&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of the long-term foreign (white) bartenders are on spouse visas or even hold permanent residence. There are also some civilians working for the US military who own and work in bars although I believe their military contracts forbid this and the old &#8220;blind-eye policy&#8221;has been tightened up considerably recently.</p>
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