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	<title>Comments on: What Adamu thinks: Prime Minister Shinzo Abe</title>
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	<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/</link>
	<description>Photos, Stories and articles on East Asia</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:53:25 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mutantfrog Travelogue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PESEK on Japan&#8217;s shrinking population</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-89154</link>
		<dc:creator>Mutantfrog Travelogue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; PESEK on Japan&#8217;s shrinking population</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-89154</guid>
		<description>[...] As if he were aware of MF&#8217;s recent discussion on the economic effects of Japan&#8217;s shrinking population, Bloomberg columnist William Pesek weighs in with some characteristically irreverent commentary. Pesek reports on some economists who claim that population aging and a shrinking work force would, contrary to popular belief even in mainstream Japan, have no detrimental effect on the economy as long as there&#8217;s sufficient growth in productivity, which is apparently a piece of cake. Pesek, as the headline of his column would suggest, thinks this prospect of a healthy-yet-possibly-shrinking economy so flies in the face of how we understand conventional economies that he called on the authors of Freakonomics to investigate. Here&#8217;s the main thrust of the argument: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As if he were aware of MF&#8217;s recent discussion on the economic effects of Japan&#8217;s shrinking population, Bloomberg columnist William Pesek weighs in with some characteristically irreverent commentary. Pesek reports on some economists who claim that population aging and a shrinking work force would, contrary to popular belief even in mainstream Japan, have no detrimental effect on the economy as long as there&#8217;s sufficient growth in productivity, which is apparently a piece of cake. Pesek, as the headline of his column would suggest, thinks this prospect of a healthy-yet-possibly-shrinking economy so flies in the face of how we understand conventional economies that he called on the authors of Freakonomics to investigate. Here&#8217;s the main thrust of the argument: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jade Oc</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-85547</link>
		<dc:creator>Jade Oc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-85547</guid>
		<description>Oh, and to answer the initial questions, is it allowed to reply something like &quot;I ♡　PM　♡ Abe&quot;?　Or is that too devious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and to answer the initial questions, is it allowed to reply something like &#8220;I ♡　PM　♡ Abe&#8221;?　Or is that too devious?</p>
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		<title>By: Jade Oc</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-85546</link>
		<dc:creator>Jade Oc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-85546</guid>
		<description>M-Bone makes some interesting points. However (and I do not have a copy of the Asahi Almanac to hand either), does anyone know what proportion of that 12,000 who went into farming manage to stick it out? It&#039;s long-term we need to consider, not just immediate datsu-sara stuff. 

I agree about the Mainland tourism boom - in Kyushu signs are often in Korean second rather than English. (The new Kyushu National Museum also makes a big deal out of links with the Mainland in a much better way than the older three: looks like it&#039;s very Asia-oriented (pun?).) 

I don&#039;t think it is really possible to say one way or the other that the Japanese &quot;countryside&quot; is dying, however. (First you have to make sure you are talking about the same &quot;countryside&quot; as everyone else: I often get the feeling that for Tokyoites, Osaka is inaka.) There are many inaka regions that are suffering severe population loss and don&#039;t have the attractions of Nagiso or Izumo (both of which probably tend to attract more &#039;baba&#039; tourists than, say, DisneySea... Places like Kenrokuen in Kanazawa are also more grey than green at times). One of the reasons for the great Heisei Amalgamation was the depopulation of the rural countryside: smaller towns and villages could no longer take in enough taxes to cover their costs. 

For the larger cities it&#039;s not so glum, although as pointed out in a recent (March) issue of &#039;Toshi Mondai&#039;, cities are suffering from the ongoing doughnut effect (where they become full of sugar and fat and are covered in chocolate), and along with this the downtown labour force is ageing. Infrastructure costs aren&#039;t going down as fast as tax revenues here either apparently. The government has set up any number of committees and laws to revitalise the downtowns, but with little effect. As a stroll along someplace like downtown Matsue can suggest.... The government is trying to get urban planning to redefine itself, create &#039;compact cities&#039; and attract people back into the centres, and has been for some time. Periodic spasms about decentralising Tokyo may also play into this in some way. 

And yeah, Japanese agriculture is a bit of a joke compared to countries which make a living from it. There are already masses of fields lying fallow, an issue that has been going on for god-knows how long now. 

I&#039;d take below-average income in Japan (and frequently have) over above-average income in China any day. Japan will depopulate, its GDP may weaken relatively (which is all the media seems to care about really) even if it actually expands, but whenever I have heard people over the past dozen years talk about the decline of Japan, I am reminded of the comment Isaac Asimov used in &quot;Foundation&quot; regarding the Empire: it may be a bit worn and tatty at the edges, but the centre is still &quot;incomparably mighty&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M-Bone makes some interesting points. However (and I do not have a copy of the Asahi Almanac to hand either), does anyone know what proportion of that 12,000 who went into farming manage to stick it out? It&#8217;s long-term we need to consider, not just immediate datsu-sara stuff.</p>
<p>I agree about the Mainland tourism boom &#8211; in Kyushu signs are often in Korean second rather than English. (The new Kyushu National Museum also makes a big deal out of links with the Mainland in a much better way than the older three: looks like it&#8217;s very Asia-oriented (pun?).)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is really possible to say one way or the other that the Japanese &#8220;countryside&#8221; is dying, however. (First you have to make sure you are talking about the same &#8220;countryside&#8221; as everyone else: I often get the feeling that for Tokyoites, Osaka is inaka.) There are many inaka regions that are suffering severe population loss and don&#8217;t have the attractions of Nagiso or Izumo (both of which probably tend to attract more &#8216;baba&#8217; tourists than, say, DisneySea&#8230; Places like Kenrokuen in Kanazawa are also more grey than green at times). One of the reasons for the great Heisei Amalgamation was the depopulation of the rural countryside: smaller towns and villages could no longer take in enough taxes to cover their costs.</p>
<p>For the larger cities it&#8217;s not so glum, although as pointed out in a recent (March) issue of &#8216;Toshi Mondai&#8217;, cities are suffering from the ongoing doughnut effect (where they become full of sugar and fat and are covered in chocolate), and along with this the downtown labour force is ageing. Infrastructure costs aren&#8217;t going down as fast as tax revenues here either apparently. The government has set up any number of committees and laws to revitalise the downtowns, but with little effect. As a stroll along someplace like downtown Matsue can suggest&#8230;. The government is trying to get urban planning to redefine itself, create &#8216;compact cities&#8217; and attract people back into the centres, and has been for some time. Periodic spasms about decentralising Tokyo may also play into this in some way.</p>
<p>And yeah, Japanese agriculture is a bit of a joke compared to countries which make a living from it. There are already masses of fields lying fallow, an issue that has been going on for god-knows how long now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d take below-average income in Japan (and frequently have) over above-average income in China any day. Japan will depopulate, its <span class="caps">GDP</span> may weaken relatively (which is all the media seems to care about really) even if it actually expands, but whenever I have heard people over the past dozen years talk about the decline of Japan, I am reminded of the comment Isaac Asimov used in &#8220;Foundation&#8221; regarding the Empire: it may be a bit worn and tatty at the edges, but the centre is still &#8220;incomparably mighty&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: M-Bone</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-85047</link>
		<dc:creator>M-Bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-85047</guid>
		<description>The most recent statistics I have are from 2003. In that year, nearly 12,000 individuals started farming for the first time. This is up from just 4300 in 1990. There has been a significant and steady increase. These numbers may seem small, but let&#039;s not forget a number of things -- farms in Japan are becoming more consolidated and labor saving technology is being applied more frequently by business minded farmers. We can also apply some basic economics. Fewer farmers in the near future will mean less rice produced, which will cause prices to rise (let&#039;s face it, Japanese have gotta have Japanese rice) which will provide an economic incentive for more people to start farming. 

Also, this is just people starting farming -- more people are moving to the inaka for other reasons. Factories, for example, are becoming decentralized to some degree. The Kurashiki now has over 1000 factories employing over 40,000. There are many ways to define &quot;inaka&quot; but Kurashiki fits in my books. Rural Hiroshima prefecture (the middle of Chugoku being an undeniable inaka) has also undergone a recent boom.

One more inaka boom industry -- tourism. More tourists from China and Korea going to some areas like Beppu (Japanese always put down Oita as inaka so I am going to group Beppu as well). Also, old Japanese ladies are a financial force that cannot be underestimated. If you have gone into a depato lately, I&#039;m sure that you have been amazed (or appalled) by the numbers of old ladies with the big bucks to spend. Anyway, domestic travel is HUGE for this group. I&#039;ve been to some out of the way areas (Izumo in Shimane prefecture, Nagiso in Nagano prefecture) lately that seem to be booming with &quot;baba tourists&quot;. I don&#039;t have any stats for this one, however, just a personal observation.

Bottom line -- the Japanese countryside does not seem to be dying. There is PLENTY of potential for rationalization and streamlining of Japanese agriculture. While it is doubtful that the inaka will see any kind of significant &quot;golden age&quot; in the near future, I think that large homes within an hour or two train ride from major cities (or major regional cities like Kagoshima, Oita, Hiroshima, Matsuyama, etc. Japan has over 30 cities with populations 400,000 or greater) will be enough of a draw for some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most recent statistics I have are from 2003. In that year, nearly 12,000 individuals started farming for the first time. This is up from just 4300 in 1990. There has been a significant and steady increase. These numbers may seem small, but let&#8217;s not forget a number of things&#8212;farms in Japan are becoming more consolidated and labor saving technology is being applied more frequently by business minded farmers. We can also apply some basic economics. Fewer farmers in the near future will mean less rice produced, which will cause prices to rise (let&#8217;s face it, Japanese have gotta have Japanese rice) which will provide an economic incentive for more people to start farming.</p>
<p>Also, this is just people starting farming&#8212;more people are moving to the inaka for other reasons. Factories, for example, are becoming decentralized to some degree. The Kurashiki now has over 1000 factories employing over 40,000. There are many ways to define &#8220;inaka&#8221; but Kurashiki fits in my books. Rural Hiroshima prefecture (the middle of Chugoku being an undeniable inaka) has also undergone a recent boom.</p>
<p>One more inaka boom industry&#8212;tourism. More tourists from China and Korea going to some areas like Beppu (Japanese always put down Oita as inaka so I am going to group Beppu as well). Also, old Japanese ladies are a financial force that cannot be underestimated. If you have gone into a depato lately, I&#8217;m sure that you have been amazed (or appalled) by the numbers of old ladies with the big bucks to spend. Anyway, domestic travel is <span class="caps">HUGE</span> for this group. I&#8217;ve been to some out of the way areas (Izumo in Shimane prefecture, Nagiso in Nagano prefecture) lately that seem to be booming with &#8220;baba tourists&#8221;. I don&#8217;t have any stats for this one, however, just a personal observation.</p>
<p>Bottom line&#8212;the Japanese countryside does not seem to be dying. There is <span class="caps">PLENTY</span> of potential for rationalization and streamlining of Japanese agriculture. While it is doubtful that the inaka will see any kind of significant &#8220;golden age&#8221; in the near future, I think that large homes within an hour or two train ride from major cities (or major regional cities like Kagoshima, Oita, Hiroshima, Matsuyama, etc. Japan has over 30 cities with populations 400,000 or greater) will be enough of a draw for some.</p>
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		<title>By: Mutantfrog</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-85018</link>
		<dc:creator>Mutantfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-85018</guid>
		<description>I met a guy the other day who had quit his salaryman job to become an organic farmer. He certainly seemed happy about the choice, but one problem in Japan is that there are almost no &quot;normal&quot; jobs outside of the big city. While in the US a lot of companies are located in suburban or exurban office parks, Japan has just been getting more and more centralized, making commutes longer and more unpleasant. 

Aside from a few people with an independent streak moving to the countryside, is there any example of a real trend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I met a guy the other day who had quit his salaryman job to become an organic farmer. He certainly seemed happy about the choice, but one problem in Japan is that there are almost no &#8220;normal&#8221; jobs outside of the big city. While in the US a lot of companies are located in suburban or exurban office parks, Japan has just been getting more and more centralized, making commutes longer and more unpleasant.</p>
<p>Aside from a few people with an independent streak moving to the countryside, is there any example of a real trend?</p>
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		<title>By: M-Bone</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-84988</link>
		<dc:creator>M-Bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-84988</guid>
		<description>But.... Japan has seen a notable jump in living space per person since 1990. The trend is expected to continue. Also, cramped or not, fewer people per household will mean more living space per person. This trend is also continuing. While other major cities (Berlin, Sydney, London) get more cramped and more expensive, the stats for Tokyo actually suggest a significant change for the better over the past 15 years. 

Believe it or not, there is also an &quot;inaka kurashi&quot; boom in Japan at present with a small but significant group of people electing to leave the cities behind. There have been a variety of TV programs and magazine spreads about this. 

You are also ignoring some other factors like the fact that couples living in the middle of the big cities tend to have fewer (or no) children - making for more living space. You have to look at a problem like this on a per household basis. The statistics are easy to get (Asahi Almanac).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But&#8230;. Japan has seen a notable jump in living space per person since 1990. The trend is expected to continue. Also, cramped or not, fewer people per household will mean more living space per person. This trend is also continuing. While other major cities (Berlin, Sydney, London) get more cramped and more expensive, the stats for Tokyo actually suggest a significant change for the better over the past 15 years.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, there is also an &#8220;inaka kurashi&#8221; boom in Japan at present with a small but significant group of people electing to leave the cities behind. There have been a variety of TV programs and magazine spreads about this.</p>
<p>You are also ignoring some other factors like the fact that couples living in the middle of the big cities tend to have fewer (or no) children &#8211; making for more living space. You have to look at a problem like this on a per household basis. The statistics are easy to get (Asahi Almanac).</p>
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		<title>By: Durf</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-84770</link>
		<dc:creator>Durf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-84770</guid>
		<description>M-Bone: &quot;Less people means more living space.&quot;

Maybe. I think internal flows of population are going to have far more impact on Japan&#039;s social and economic landscape than any immigration trends. The places that retain their vitality in a Japan with a shrinking population will be Tokyo, Aichi, Kansai, and northern Kyushu, and these cities will remain crowded and filled with cramped homes. The Industrial Revolution brought young people to the cities once; it&#039;s interesting to see the same flow again with no revolution beyond &quot;that&#039;s the only place jobs are anymore.&quot; 

Beyond that, you&#039;re going to have a lot of farmland (and a lot of it fallow), some industrial complexes placed where lots of flat land can be had for cheap (Nagano, Tochigi), and the mountains. And while a smaller population dividing up that empty land might make for a better-sounding per capita living space, the number of people actually heading out to get themselves spacious yards will stay quite low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M-Bone: &#8220;Less people means more living space.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe. I think internal flows of population are going to have far more impact on Japan&#8217;s social and economic landscape than any immigration trends. The places that retain their vitality in a Japan with a shrinking population will be Tokyo, Aichi, Kansai, and northern Kyushu, and these cities will remain crowded and filled with cramped homes. The Industrial Revolution brought young people to the cities once; it&#8217;s interesting to see the same flow again with no revolution beyond &#8220;that&#8217;s the only place jobs are anymore.&#8221;</p>
<p>Beyond that, you&#8217;re going to have a lot of farmland (and a lot of it fallow), some industrial complexes placed where lots of flat land can be had for cheap (Nagano, Tochigi), and the mountains. And while a smaller population dividing up that empty land might make for a better-sounding per capita living space, the number of people actually heading out to get themselves spacious yards will stay quite low.</p>
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		<title>By: Adamu</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-84588</link>
		<dc:creator>Adamu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-84588</guid>
		<description>Agreed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed!</p>
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		<title>By: haafu reader</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-84285</link>
		<dc:creator>haafu reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-84285</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if people are still commenting here, but I want to make a point that Japan&#039;s agriculture sector is in near collapse. Rice is the only product that Japan continues to be self sufficient in and the average age of today&#039;s Japanese farmers is over the age of 60. In other words, within two decades all of Japan&#039;s farmers will be nearly extinguished with very little replacement as young people today are avoiding agriculture in record numbers. Without immigration, how will Japan mantain its agriculture sector? Japan NEEDS immigrants. The issue now is for Japan to realize this, and begin making systematic steps to accept them, integrate them, and guide them to the sectors of the economy that are badly in need of workers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if people are still commenting here, but I want to make a point that Japan&#8217;s agriculture sector is in near collapse. Rice is the only product that Japan continues to be self sufficient in and the average age of today&#8217;s Japanese farmers is over the age of 60. In other words, within two decades all of Japan&#8217;s farmers will be nearly extinguished with very little replacement as young people today are avoiding agriculture in record numbers. Without immigration, how will Japan mantain its agriculture sector? Japan <span class="caps">NEEDS</span> immigrants. The issue now is for Japan to realize this, and begin making systematic steps to accept them, integrate them, and guide them to the sectors of the economy that are badly in need of workers.</p>
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		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/comment-page-1/#comment-83968</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2006 06:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mutantfrog.com/2006/11/16/what-adamu-thinks-prime-minister-shinzo-abe/#comment-83968</guid>
		<description>I am 36 year old Japanese livimg in Saitama.and I must say that though we are 
not accepting huge number of immigrant from abroad there is a steady growth
of foreigners coming into the society through international marriage.

I for one married to a mongolian woman and adopted her son.He goes to public
school and integrated very well and took him only a year to learn the language.
(he is forgetting mongolian and that is our concern)

In my days I found no student with foreign background (although there could be
one or two zainithi koreans),but in my son&#039;s school of 80 kids in 2nd grade,
there is one peruvian and one kid whose mother is chinese and I must say that
is a revolutionary change for Tokorozawa!
There is a statistics that says 15% of all marriages that occur in this country in the last decade are interenational marriages,and this happens almost everywhere in the country.Even my lawyer is hiring a Russian who is doing his legal work hundling just the case for russian male brides.

If you want see the future of multi ethnic Japan,go to Gunma,especially Oizumi,
Ohta,or Isezaki.I made a research on Isezaki once and the city has resident from
more than 70 countries,which consist about 15% of entire population.Oizumi is 
occupied by Japanese Brazillians, and they owns supermarkets, realesate agencies
and dental clinics.

The foreign community is growing in Japan,but it is clandestine for the eye of the western expat.It will not make japanese society multi thnic in single leap,but
it will change the japanese state of mind, uchi to soto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am 36 year old Japanese livimg in Saitama.and I must say that though we are<br />
not accepting huge number of immigrant from abroad there is a steady growth<br />
of foreigners coming into the society through international marriage.</p>
<p>I for one married to a mongolian woman and adopted her son.He goes to public<br />
school and integrated very well and took him only a year to learn the language.<br />
(he is forgetting mongolian and that is our concern)</p>
<p>In my days I found no student with foreign background (although there could be<br />
one or two zainithi koreans),but in my son&#8217;s school of 80 kids in 2nd grade,<br />
there is one peruvian and one kid whose mother is chinese and I must say that<br />
is a revolutionary change for Tokorozawa!<br />
There is a statistics that says 15% of all marriages that occur in this country in the last decade are interenational marriages,and this happens almost everywhere in the country.Even my lawyer is hiring a Russian who is doing his legal work hundling just the case for russian male brides.</p>
<p>If you want see the future of multi ethnic Japan,go to Gunma,especially Oizumi,<br />
Ohta,or Isezaki.I made a research on Isezaki once and the city has resident from<br />
more than 70 countries,which consist about 15% of entire population.Oizumi is<br />
occupied by Japanese Brazillians, and they owns supermarkets, realesate agencies<br />
and dental clinics.</p>
<p>The foreign community is growing in Japan,but it is clandestine for the eye of the western expat.It will not make japanese society multi thnic in single leap,but<br />
it will change the japanese state of mind, uchi to soto.</p>
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