Comments on: Major Taiwanese Politician Visits Yasukuni- Better Relations Ahead? http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/ Photos, Stories and articles on East Asia Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:53:25 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Apples and Oranges http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-3070 ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Apples and Oranges Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:02 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-3070 [...] 8217;s Yasukuni visits being just the first volley in what will be a long diplomatic war. Taiwanese politicians are visiting Yasukuni [...] [...] 8217;s Yasukuni visits being just the first volley in what will be a long diplomatic war. Taiwanese politicians are visiting Yasukuni [...]

]]> By: Mutantfrog http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-3031 Mutantfrog Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:58:44 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-3031 Thanks for the photos! Luckily one of them is the shrine museum's explanation of what they call the 'Nanjing Operation.' <img src="http://photocdn.sohu.com/20050407/Img225075082.jpg" alt="" /> Thanks for the photos!
Luckily one of them is the shrine museum’s explanation of what they call the ‘Nanjing Operation.’

]]> By: eswn http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-3026 eswn Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:38:48 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-3026 by the way, here are some photos of the shrine: http://news.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=news&MsgID=26387 by the way, here are some photos of the shrine:
http://news.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=news&MsgID=26387

]]> By: Joe http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2980 Joe Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:18:38 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2980 Take a look at the history of Taiwan after World War II: "Formosa Betrayed", by George H Kerr http://www.romanization.com/books/formosabetrayed/ (Taiwan was known as Formosa) About Lee Tung-hui: Lee Tung-hui educated in Japan? Well, yes, considering that Taiwan WAS a part of Japan. He went to school there and the schools were run by the Japanese. Lee Raised during Japanese Rule? Again, he was BORN in taiwan when it was a part of Japan. He didn't leave China, he didn't have a choice! He was born a Japanese. BUT if that's the basis of chinese distrust in Lee Tung-hui, then I don't think the Chinese can trust anybody who isn't born and raised in China. Here's one example: All Americans of chinese descent who are born in the U.S., are likely not only educated in the U.S. but are also fans of the U.S. Heck, they probably even LOVE the U.S. Some even serves in the U.S. Armed Forces. OH NO. How can they consider themselve Americans? How could they be fans of the U.S.? As chinese descendents, they should consider themselves as only Chinese, and should be loyal to China no matter what. Right. About trusting Xinhua coverage: Personally, I trust American and European-based journalism to provide the most bias-free coverage, compared to ANY Asian one. Especially when the topic is Asian related. Especially so when compared to Xinhua. Where was Xinhua coverage on Tiananmen when the chinese students were being run over by tanks? According to Xinhua, it never happened. Anyway, criticism of the TSU have quick, but support for them is not far behind... http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f13515b2-a81a-11d9-87a9-00000e2511c8.html Take a look at the history of Taiwan after World War II:
“Formosa Betrayed”, by George H Kerr
http://www.romanization.com/books/formosabetrayed/
(Taiwan was known as Formosa)

About Lee Tung-hui:
Lee Tung-hui educated in Japan? Well, yes, considering that Taiwan WAS a part of Japan. He went to school there and the schools were run by the Japanese.
Lee Raised during Japanese Rule? Again, he was BORN in taiwan when it was a part of Japan. He didn’t leave China, he didn’t have a choice! He was born a Japanese.

BUT if that’s the basis of chinese distrust in Lee Tung-hui, then I don’t think the Chinese can trust anybody who isn’t born and raised in China. Here’s one example: All Americans of chinese descent who are born in the U.S., are likely not only educated in the U.S. but are also fans of the U.S. Heck, they probably even LOVE the U.S. Some even serves in the U.S. Armed Forces.

OH NO. How can they consider themselve Americans? How could they be fans of the U.S.? As chinese descendents, they should consider themselves as only Chinese, and should be loyal to China no matter what.

Right.

About trusting Xinhua coverage:
Personally, I trust American and European-based journalism to provide the most bias-free coverage, compared to ANY Asian one. Especially when the topic is Asian related. Especially so when compared to Xinhua.

Where was Xinhua coverage on Tiananmen when the chinese students were being run over by tanks?

According to Xinhua, it never happened.

Anyway, criticism of the TSU have quick, but support for them is not far behind…
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f13515b2-a81a-11d9-87a9-00000e2511c8.html

]]> By: chriswaugh_bj http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2852 chriswaugh_bj Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:11:52 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2852 I somehow left out the first sentence of the reply, which was something about Lee Tenghui having been educated in Japan. And then I wrote about the rumours he's quite a fan of Japan...... Still, that's what I've heard here on the mainland. Take all of that with as many grains of salt as you like. I somehow left out the first sentence of the reply, which was something about Lee Tenghui having been educated in Japan. And then I wrote about the rumours he’s quite a fan of Japan…...

Still, that’s what I’ve heard here on the mainland. Take all of that with as many grains of salt as you like.

]]> By: chriswaugh_bj http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2851 chriswaugh_bj Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:08:11 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2851 Reply to the comment you left on my blog: Rumour has it he's quite a fan of Japan. That's the debt I was referring too. As for why he's distrusted, that should have been made obvious. Where I live, nobody really likes Japan, and someone with Lee Tenghui's background will never be trusted, regardless of his 'contribution to cross-straits relations'. As for media coverage, I trust Xinhua more because I know their bias. I quite simply don't know enough about the Taiwanese or Japanese media to know which way they're heading, meaning I have to think a bit harder about what they're writing. So I'm lazy. Ultimately, no media is objective, and so I take my news from a variety of sources, keeping myself as aware as possible of the particular bias of each source. I don't really trust any source, but on particular issues I trust certain sources more. Whose coverage of Abu Ghraib would you consider more trustworthy? Fox News or CNN? Completely different issue, I agree, but that's the principle I'm working on. Reply to the comment you left on my blog:

Rumour has it he’s quite a fan of Japan. That’s the debt I was referring too. As for why he’s distrusted, that should have been made obvious. Where I live, nobody really likes Japan, and someone with Lee Tenghui’s background will never be trusted, regardless of his ‘contribution to cross-straits relations’.

As for media coverage, I trust Xinhua more because I know their bias. I quite simply don’t know enough about the Taiwanese or Japanese media to know which way they’re heading, meaning I have to think a bit harder about what they’re writing. So I’m lazy. Ultimately, no media is objective, and so I take my news from a variety of sources, keeping myself as aware as possible of the particular bias of each source. I don’t really trust any source, but on particular issues I trust certain sources more. Whose coverage of Abu Ghraib would you consider more trustworthy? Fox News or CNN? Completely different issue, I agree, but that’s the principle I’m working on.

]]> By: Jing http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2849 Jing Thu, 07 Apr 2005 03:24:57 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2849 No need, I'll probably just rant your head off about colonial collaborators anyways. But to add some more details to this issue, most of political establishment in Taiwan has turned against him, with the KMT and PFP firing the first salvos. Even the nominally pro-independence DPP has criticized the actions of the TSU chief who happened to be greeted from his return flight by being pelted with eggs after getting off the airplane. As I was mentioning earlier, this was essentially a political ploy that backfired for the TSU. The KMT and PFP have recently begun unofficial negotiations to de-arm the recent impasse after the anti-seccession legislation fiasco. Rather historic since these are the first negotiations between the KMT and the CCP since the civil war unofficially ended. The Yasukuni visit was likely staged in response to those visits by KMT and PFP representatives but by all accounts failed for any domestic political purposes, except for getting their names into the newspapers. No need, I’ll probably just rant your head off about colonial collaborators anyways. But to add some more details to this issue, most of political establishment in Taiwan has turned against him, with the KMT and PFP firing the first salvos. Even the nominally pro-independence DPP has criticized the actions of the TSU chief who happened to be greeted from his return flight by being pelted with eggs after getting off the airplane. As I was mentioning earlier, this was essentially a political ploy that backfired for the TSU. The KMT and PFP have recently begun unofficial negotiations to de-arm the recent impasse after the anti-seccession legislation fiasco. Rather historic since these are the first negotiations between the KMT and the CCP since the civil war unofficially ended. The Yasukuni visit was likely staged in response to those visits by KMT and PFP representatives but by all accounts failed for any domestic political purposes, except for getting their names into the newspapers.

]]> By: Mutantfrog http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2808 Mutantfrog Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:46:05 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2808 Jing, thanks for the information. I'll happily admit that I know very little about Taiwanese politics or political parties aside from a general history of the KMT. As I said at the beginning of my first post on Taiwan, these are my initial thoughts as I begin to read up on contemporary Taiwanese politics in preparation of my (possible) study abroad there this summer to learn Chinese. If you want to tell me about "the quisling and pathetic nature of the TSU" I'd love to hear about it. Feel free to either post it here or email it to me from the link on the front page. Jing, thanks for the information. I’ll happily admit that I know very little about Taiwanese politics or political parties aside from a general history of the KMT. As I said at the beginning of my first post on Taiwan, these are my initial thoughts as I begin to read up on contemporary Taiwanese politics in preparation of my (possible) study abroad there this summer to learn Chinese.

If you want to tell me about “the quisling and pathetic nature of the TSU” I’d love to hear about it. Feel free to either post it here or email it to me from the link on the front page.

]]> By: Jing http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2776 Jing Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:38:30 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2776 This just confirms to mainland China, and to the blues in Taiwan that the TSU is the party of treason. A lot of people tend to comment about the issue without knowing any of the relevant details. The TSU is not a major party in Taiwan, it is prominent but only because it is highly vocal and shrill. With only about a 5% representation in the legislative Yuan, they are nobodies. However, they are keepers of the ideological flame of the pan-greens independence platform. Calling this some sort of gepolitical realignment or a victory for Japan is absurd. The genuine purpose was to confirm the anti-China posture of the hardcore greens in the face of the KMT's mainland visit and the new Chen-Soong political rapproachment. In otherwords, it was a political ploy to spite the mainland and to maintain some manner of political relevance despite their weak political position. This is unlikely to have any effects on mainland policy as the TSU are essentially are all persona non-grata as far as the Communist Party is concerned. I will leave the discussion of the quisling and pathetic nature of the TSU for another day. :) This just confirms to mainland China, and to the blues in Taiwan that the TSU is the party of treason. A lot of people tend to comment about the issue without knowing any of the relevant details. The TSU is not a major party in Taiwan, it is prominent but only because it is highly vocal and shrill. With only about a 5% representation in the legislative Yuan, they are nobodies. However, they are keepers of the ideological flame of the pan-greens independence platform. Calling this some sort of gepolitical realignment or a victory for Japan is absurd. The genuine purpose was to confirm the anti-China posture of the hardcore greens in the face of the KMT’s mainland visit and the new Chen-Soong political rapproachment. In otherwords, it was a political ploy to spite the mainland and to maintain some manner of political relevance despite their weak political position. This is unlikely to have any effects on mainland policy as the TSU are essentially are all persona non-grata as far as the Communist Party is concerned.

I will leave the discussion of the quisling and pathetic nature of the TSU for another day. :)

]]> By: John Thacker http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/05/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2771 John Thacker Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:48:01 +0000 http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/04/one-china-strengthens-relations-with-japan-as-the-other-shreds-them/#comment-2771 I believe the big controversies are: 1) Several of the 13 or 14 matyrs barely qualify as war dead, or at least certainly didn't fall in battle. We're talking guys like Tojo who commanded the war, etc. 2) The Shrine's website and other official stuff has some particularly offensive statements. OK, I can take comments about military tribunals being unfair. Sure, in the history of military trials and victors' justice, that happens. Heck, Nuremberg was hardly completely "fair" according to the legal standards of civilian justice. War is war, of course. But the comments about the countries of Asia wanting Japan to take over, welcoming the prosperity sphere, etc., (go view the shrine website) really annoy nationalists in other countries. I believe the big controversies are:
1) Several of the 13 or 14 matyrs barely qualify as war dead, or at least certainly didn’t fall in battle. We’re talking guys like Tojo who commanded the war, etc.
2) The Shrine’s website and other official stuff has some particularly offensive statements. OK, I can take comments about military tribunals being unfair. Sure, in the history of military trials and victors’ justice, that happens. Heck, Nuremberg was hardly completely “fair” according to the legal standards of civilian justice. War is war, of course. But the comments about the countries of Asia wanting Japan to take over, welcoming the prosperity sphere, etc., (go view the shrine website) really annoy nationalists in other countries.

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